Ragamuffin Soul - Latest Comments in Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Brad Metzger — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:14:33 -0000

Are blacks and other people of color ever guilty of racism? Just askin' because it's never discussed.

A lot of people divorce themselves from this topic because it's such a blatant double standard. It's difficult to care when one group is held to an impossibly high standard and other groups are held to no standard at all. OK the internets just got way too serious right there so I'm gonna end with this:

Don't even think of calling me racist 'cuz I've got two black friends, and another Panamanian.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Brad Metzger — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:13:58 -0000

Are blacks and other people of color ever guilty of racism? Just askin' because it's never discussed.

A lot of people divorce themselves from this topic because it's such an blatant double standard. It's difficult to care when one group is held to an impossibly high standard and other groups are held to no standard at all. OK the internets just got way too serious right there so I'm gonna end with this:

Don't even think of calling me racist 'cuz I've got two black friends, and another Panamanian.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Rhi — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 22:21:56 -0000

Wanna hear something crazy. As "light" as I am, I've had quite a few racial slurs and racially driven discrimination.It just makes me sad....

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Kari Byrd — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:02:31 -0000

I wish there was more of a general posture of extreme grace and humility when it comes to trying to understand people who have experienced discrimination, and the anger and frustration that goes along with it. I wonder if there would be less segregation, especially in our churches, if there were more honest attempts at acknowledging the challenges (now and throughout history) of being a racial minority in America. I believe the posture of defensiveness stands in the way of reconciliation, healing, and unity.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

portorikan — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:17:27 -0000

@Rhi:

I don't know about San Antonio being more diverse. There's certainly a bit of racism there towards Blacks from, of all people, the Mexican heritage community from when I lived there. Not a whole lot of Black folks though. At least not compared to where I grew up, which is ironic (Tallahassee, Fl).

I will say that I do love that water park though Rhi.
Austin is probably the best city in Texas. :)

Anyway, back in Tally. Racism trips me out and I just wanted to share I had a similar experience as Carlos. Somehow, this Puerto Rican kid who people thought initially was 'light-skinned' or mixed was ok to tell racist jokes or say racist things. Totally befuddled me.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Rhi — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 00:19:14 -0000

p.s.
there is more diversity in Austin (45 min away) and San Antonio (30 min away)... It's just THIS town is very bi-racial itself... white and mexican. I have yet to see more than one Asian even...Should I feel weird about this or am I too sensitive?

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Rhi — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 00:17:15 -0000

I've been dealing with this lately. Since I am biracial I've had to deal with "so what are you?" question my ENTIRE life. I've always been so annoyed with the question. Frankly, I think it's rude to ask. My usual smart answer would be HUMAN, A WOMAN, A MOTHER, etc. But, I know it'll continue to be asked of me cause it's not "obvious" and I can't help that. Here's the kicker. Since I've lived her in New Braunfels, TX....I feel suddenly VERY alone and out of place, ethnically and culturally. I've been here 3.5 months and can count on ONE hand the black folks I've seen. It bothers me. I need diversity. I need my culture around me. I'm told straight up the black community in this "old German town" is virtually non-existent. I don't know if it bothers me cause I feel alone, culturally; or if it bothers me solely cause I'm from So Cal...a place that is SO diverse you have to search hard and wide for areas of just one culture. The worst part is that I know I couldn't make this town our HOME cause I couldn't stand the thought of Izaiah being the "only black boy" in school. Geez. It's just weird for me. Maybe it's cause of the flack I caught as a young girl and being the only "mixed" one in my school....I've been telling myself that it shouldn't bother me. However, it does. I guess it's the CULTURAL differences that I notice the most...it's certainly not a skin color issue or any of that. I haven't figured out why I feel weird about it. I don't like ALL of any one culture. This is why I didn't o to a black college. I like variety in cultures I guess... any feedback for me? It's fitting that you posted about this cause I've been grappling with this for a while now.....rhi

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Herstorygirl — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:15:31 -0000

So... any other Arabs in here?

I used to be boldly proud of my heritage. My friends thought it was cool, too.
And then 9-11 happened.
I think it's funny that most people see racism as purely a white/black/Hispanic thing.
I have friends who are Sikhs, Russians, and Persians and they have ALL felt the sting of discrimination.
I see ANY form of bigotry as wrong.

And I don't necessarily agree with the whole "where you were raised" rationalization because I was raised in a rural, all-white, Southern town (rampant with racism) and I have been vehemently opposed to these attitudes since I was a young child. It never made sense to me, on any level.

Perhaps we are subconsciously programmed to automatically notice someone who is very different from ourselves in appearance, but if we ever JUDGE anything about that person based on their appearance, then we have crossed a line.

If you jump to ANY conclusions about me based on appearances (my ethnicity, my social status, my income, my political preference, or even my weight), then you are equally guilty. You don't know me & you don't know my heart.
Bigotry takes ALL forms.
Racism is not the "worst" form of discrimination; it's just the least socially acceptable.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Derrick Henslee — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:20:40 -0000

Really like reading the comments and enjoyed the post! I really hate racism. I feel like it would die if people wouldn't perpetuate it in the media and in public forums. Not to say that it isn't very real.

I think we have a great blessing in that the United States is such a vast mix of peoples and cultures. I don't think it's okay to blend it all together and wash away the contrasts. That is what makes our country so much different than the rest of the world!

With my friends of different races, we tend to tease each other about the "cultural" characteristics of our race in an effort to make fun of it altogether. I am white, so I have no rhythm, my friend Mathias makes some mean fried chicken, Hernandez is never on time to rehearsal...etc. I love celebrating our differences and being friends with people to the point that I forget that they don't look like me....except when on mission trip to Costa Rica, and then Hernandez comes in handy with his fluent Spanish!

All that to say, I think that the racist comments vs. being a racist is a thin line. If I murder, I'm a murderer. If I steal, I'm a theif. If I lie...I'm a liar. So to make a racist comment does at the very least reveal the thoughts that we are having, whether placed there by our grandparents, Al Sharpton, or some other negative influence!

Sorry for the rant Los...

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

kf — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:50:28 -0000

Your data suggest little to no automatic preference between European American and African American.

Pretty cool Harvard thing and i think i could have told you that about myself. We were talking about this the other day in a mtg. I fully realize there is a wide variety of folks out there, but I do get frustrated that so often the first filter people put things through are of a discriminatory and defensive nature whether it be age, sex, race, religion, etc vs expecting the best out of people and giving them the benefit of the doubt regarding the motive behind actions or words. I know I wear rose colored glasses, but i have also seen-a) you will always find what you are looking for b) when you expect the best out of people and believe in them as people, they often prove you right. Yes, many will let you down along the way and there may be some days I'm not as nice as I would like to be. But this is one of those areas I'll try to remember that mercy ALWAYS triumphs over judgement both with others and myself.
All this to say, I agree with you Carlos. I look forward to when it can just be a "strong community". A community with our identities firmly planted at the foot of the cross and we just happen to be men, women, old, young, black, white, asian, southern, northern, SEC, Pac 10, etc.
Go Vols. :)

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Greg — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 09:10:48 -0000

A couple thoughts. I'm a white man, 33, who grew up in metro Atlanta, married to a black woman. I've seen both sides of bigotry (not to be a stickler, but we're really talking about bigotry for the most part, not racism) throughout my time here. I've seen plenty of whites say bigoted things, and plenty of blacks as well. It's funny how careful PC culture has made us.... I look at my last sentence and say "Does it seem bigoted to say 'blacks'?" Gee I hope not since I just said 'whites' :-) but I'm sure some people can take it that way.

In any case, I highly highly recommend everyone try the tests out at Project Implicit at Harvard. You will be amazed at how deeply prejudice is ingrained in us. You can intentionally be trying to be not biased and still you will likely get a biased result. Chew on that for awhile. https://implicit.harvard.ed...

I think it is important to realize we all have our biases, try not to act on them, and also to recognize and talk about our differences and not pretend there are no cultural differences. Cultural differences are great - I wouldn't want the whole world to be just like me. What a boring place that would be!

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Ben (of BenandJacq) — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:29:20 -0000

I agree the post was not political, but in the context of the culture right now in the USA, the race card is being thrown all over the place in this election, so that example sprang to mind. I apologize for taking the post off-topic. Thanks to everyone who refrained from politicizing the subsequent comments.

I am the type of person that has a finely tuned "justice-meter" when it comes to dealing with others (I'll let myself slide far more often), and so it frustrates me when I see inconsistency like the Sharpton example earlier. He should not be allowed to get away with racism, and I shouldn't either.

But again I am slain by the gospel. My call for justice is drowned out by Jesus' "it is finished."

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

loswhit — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:33:16 -0000

Great conversations everyone.
It is all lined with truth and I appreciate your thoughts.
Black racism. White racism. Latino racism. Asian racism.
It will all continue to fade as long as we continue to stop comparing us and them and they said that I'm, ect.
Good stuff.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Chris Ames — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:27:57 -0000

in regards to the video.... damn. that was tight.

peace|dewde

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

bobby — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:51:26 -0000

I grew up in SoCal. I had biracial friends. 80% of my high school was Philipino. You wouldn't know it by looking at me, but my grandma was 100% hispanic. I never really thought about racism much. When I did, we spoke theoretically. What we thought was racism was really hardly close.

Then I left high school, joined a performing group, and toured the midwest and the south. I was blown away. I seriously never knew the KKK still existed til I was in Ohio. I remember being in Louisianna and my homestay sharing that it was the first year they didn't have a segregated prom. My heart broke as I looked at the way people were treated and viewed, especially in the south.

That just to say I can imagine the difference for you from Riverside to Buckhead. Thanks for sharing your heart. And sure, people can say how we also need to be connected to our culture and everything else. OK, fine. When we can figure out how to treat everyone fairly regardless of culture, then I'll start to worry about whether or not we lost our cultures. Somehow, I doubt it will be a problem.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Vicki — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:33:02 -0000

I think everyone is waaaay to touchy nowadays. Personally, as a white person I feel (sometimes not all the time) that the coin has been flipped, and that I am somehow a bad person because I am white. I can relate to Ben on that one.

But you are right, Los, in saying that a lot of what is going on right now is a by-product of political hysteria. But more than race I think what we are experiencing now is more of a culture clash than anything. Here in Charlotte we are now undergoing what Atlanta went through 20 to 30 years ago in that we are growing rapidly and are getting a huge influx of lots of different ethnicities and cultures. The change is causing a lot of tension between the native Southerners and the newcomers. I just think EVERYONE is being too sensitive at times. This may sound like disingenuous but, honestly, my best friend growing up was African-American. We clicked on the first day of kindergarten and we graduated high school together. We now live in different towns, but I still talk to her frequently. With that said I did see my share of bigotry even from some of my own family members, but even as a child I knew it was wrong, and I made up my mind not to be that way. I now go to church here in CLT that routinely has over 30 ethnicities represented every Sunday, and I love it. My husband and I continually say, "This is what Heaven is going to look like." Do we still clash with some cultures? We do at times, but every culture and ethnicity has it's problems including mine.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Bill Cummings — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:15:08 -0000

Man... this line of thinking needs to be out there... in the public forum. Yes... it does seem like everyone is talking about race these days. But, so many people are afraid of having dialogue that is this honest. While we may think we are on point when we conclude that a certain person is a "racist"... it is completely counterproductive to use those words in accusation against someone.

I'm in a southern melting pot type city like with similarities to Atlanta (Raleigh) and after living here for three years it is still an adjustment from living in a northeastern city. It is much more segregated here... and the actions and words of my fellow white residents have definitely come across as racist. This video helps me reconsider how to approach those things when they happen. Gracias por compartir este vídeo...

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

rebeccamoon — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:26:43 -0000

interesting conversations. i'm teaching ESOL this year in a metro-atlanta public school (95% Hispanic...3 students from Korea + 1 from Vietnam) and one thing i've noticed is how much racism and legal status is on the very forefront of the minds of my students. for example, i could tell a student he needs to wait to go to the bathroom (because we're beginning an assignment or something) and he'll immediately respond, "it's cause you're racist." or, i could ask another student to please focus and do his assignment and he'll respond "you don't like me because i'm illegal." ??? i really don't care if they're legal or not. i just find it interesting that these students (who are 14-19) assume i'm a racist because i'm white. i've even asked them before, "do you think i'd hang out with y'all all day if i was racist?" and they respond, "it doesn't matter. you're white." that being said, i feel like i have pretty good rapport with my students -- they love to come visit after school, introduce me to their families, etc. -- but i just never realized that assumptions about racism were so prominent in their minds. it's sad that society has conditioned so many of them to think that way. the only reason i took the job anyways was because i think they matter to God and i want to love them like Jesus and help them know they're valuable, even if it's only for a couple of hours a day when i'm with them. incidentally, that's the same reason i've taught white students and black students in the past. because they matter to God so they should matter to me. i've just never encountered so much blatant discussion about racism from students.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Johnny Laird — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:18:19 -0000

Excellent vid, Los! You keep diggin' up the good stuff! Thanks for continuing to make me think....hard.

It's so so interesting to read everyone here riffing on racism - especially with my outsider's perspective, as I'm writing from the UK. A lot of good stuff, and a few bits that were slightly disturbing.

As I roll this around in my head, I'm wondering more and more if we really recognize quite how complex ethnicity and cultural identity is? They are such a rich,deep,fluid subjects... and much more fuzzy around the edges than we're sometimes willing to acknowledge.

Here's my little gumbo:

• I’m hugely proud to be a Scot (with an English accent)
• I baulk at describing myself as “British”
• I’m probably a Londoner as much as anything else
• I feel like a Celt, not an Anglo
• I am married to an English girl of Jamaican/St Lucian descent who regularly drops into patois at home
• My family is a glorious mix of the celtic, anglo and Caribbean, but when Scotland are playing football (that's soccer to most of you! ;-)...there’s only one team for us
• It's only just occurred to me that when I roll with my wife & her sister & all our kids, I'm the only white one there
• I agree with those eminent theologians at Hard Rock, and would wish to "Love All, Serve All"
• Ultimately, my identity is bound up in Jesus

Pax

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Doug Holden — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:06:48 -0000

I grew up with parents who must have been racist at some level. Never heard the "n" word, but frequently heard "the coloreds". Now in my 50's, I have friends from a variety of ethnicities, and I like to believe that my parents' subtle racism did not follow to my generation. However, if I'm honest, some kind of racist mentality was ingrained in my head as a child, all without me remembering specific incidents. I think it was all very subtle, yet very much present. Parents teach children things, sometimes with purpose, and other times without realizing it. The parents don't understand that they are always teaching, and the children often don't realize that they are always being taught. Then the children grow up and realize, hey...that thought I just had, which seemed completely normal, was really pretty racist. And when that happens to me, I find it revolting. But it happens. I wish it didn't. But I know it had to come from somewhere. In my heart, I don't feel racist. But whatever was ingrained in my head as a child will continue to manifest itself in inappropriate thoughts, probably until I die. I can only hope that in the interim, the influence I had will continue to fade. I thankfully see that with my own adult children, the remnants of racism have faded even more.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

PastorT — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:33:58 -0000

You'll have to excuse me for my lack of understanding, but I just don't get it. I'm not naive enough to think that racism doesn't exist, but is there really a medium? I mean, it seems as if there is the KKK and then there are people like myself. I have never experienced anything in the middle of that GIANT spectrum. It's not like I live in a hole, surrounded by white people, and I didn't grow up like that. There have always been blacks, hispanics, asians, etc. around me and I can't recall a conversation or instance where anyone was treated differently than me.
I hear and read about race, race relations and racism and always have the same thought: "Thank God I don't have an experience to compare and relate to that."
I haven't always been a Christian, but I've always held theses same feelings regarding race. I understand that I can't fully understand because there haven't been instances in my life that penetrated the apparent bubble I'm living in, but I cannot help feeling sad for those who have.
I'm not closed minded at all and I have counseled many people dealing with discrimination. I see the pain on their faces and feel the despair in their hearts. I've seen the tough outer walls most try to build to avoid the hurt, but I still don't get it. My help for them always comes in the form of THEIR healing cuz you can't control what other people think. In my opinion, we focus too much on the actions of others. Help others, give to others, be a friend to others...Otherwise, if there are negative feelings, there is obviously some internal issues that need dealt with.
I don't know; maybe I'm rambling here, but the bottom line for me: God has people designated for trying to fix the societal problem of racism and some are here to help individuals. I know my role, I guess and it's possible I'm not supposed to understand the entire problem, which is good, cuz I don't.
Thanks for the thoughts Los!

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Ryan Fitzgerald — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:01:35 -0000

i think we should all attend michael scott's seminar

diversity tomorrow, because today is almost over.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

loswhit — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:50:05 -0000

@Lindsey. Good point.
I'm not a ethnic development theorist so I would not know that. But I'll never not be hispanic so I will always embrace it. I just won't be so proud that it comes between my daily relationships.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Los — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:38:18 -0000

@Jesse // Great thoughts.
If we lived our lives only communing with those we are "comfortable with" then we, I don't think, will get very far.
I would ask you, what makes you uncomfortable about chillin with the ebonics spittin dude?
I think if you look one step further, the answer might scare you.
Is it strictly because you have a hard time understanding them? Or is it because their dialect reminds you of something else?
And the me acting white thing, great point. Although I am a bit confused as to what ethnic Hispanic culture talks and dresses like. Unless you mean with an accent and baggy khakis and a wife beater? But yes. I speak differently when I am with you then my grandmother.
And the success you speak of...I'll let you read my email sometime. ;) I'm less welcome than you think.

@Nic // Nailed it. I think to embrace who you are is a beautiful thing. I just think it can be celebrated together. Good thoughts.

@Ben // I'm a bit confused by your comment.
It started and ended with Jesus but the middle was stuffed with what felt like heightened emotions based on political views. The post had nothing to do with politics. It had to do with culture. But to entertain your political points...
If you base what you are going to say on what some segments of society will yell, then you won't ever say a thing.
Don't worry what Al Sharpton says about you.
And it sounds like you are repeating a lot of the "media hype" you are talking about. I think if you yanked the middle of your comment out and just left it with the top and bottom of your post, then yes, Jesus is all over it.

GREAT thoughts guys. I appreciate them all. I'm learning quite a bit myself..
Los

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » To Catch A Racist

Lindsey — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:30:44 -0000

The ethnic development theorists would argue to say that it is a good thing to identify with your ethnic background. I don't think it should be the goal to have a homogeneous community where everyone thinks alike, looks alike, and/or feels like they can't be who they are culturally. Identifying with your ethnic background isn't synonymous with not having your identity in Christ. He's the one who made you the way you are and you should be embracing it. And celebrating everyone else too.