i have been fighting insurance companies for 26 months.
i am going to see it.
ScW
· 2 years ago
Mmmm... well, as with all of his stuff... he makes it seem so simple. And yes, I regularly have to fight insurance companies. I changed jobs and moved to another state partly due to insurance for my son (who has type 1 diabetes). There are a lot of problems. Obviously, he's going after the popular targets -- the insurance companies and the government. I'm glad the clip of Bush's speech was in there... what W. was talking about was malpractice insurance. You want to find the greatest increase behind the cost of health care... malpractice insurance is where it's at. I've known doctors who have stated to me that in a span of 10 - 15 years during the 80's and 90's, that their malpractice insurance had gone up over 10x the annual amount of what it was. Yet ultimately nobody wants tort reform because a) the majority of politicians are lawyers and b) there is a certain percentage of the population who'd like to be able to hit the jackpot if ole' Uncle Bob dies in the hospital unexpectedly.
Even the issue of generics versus non-generics isn't simple. Politicians will go on and on about those... or buying from Canada or whatever. It all ultimately comes down to patent laws and our system of medicine here. How much money does a company have to recoup for millions in research and millions in lawsuits when/if some weird reaction screws up somebody's life. And then after a few years, their published formula (that they spent millions researching and testing) can then be produced by other companies (generics). So they get this window to work in.
The reality is... what we have is certainly better than a lot of other places. People have pointed out that had Bill Clinton been in the UK or Canada (and been a regular citizen) versus the US, he'd have had to have waited months instead of days to have his heart surgery. That's government efficiency. The next time you get frustrated at the insurance company, ask yourself if it really would be better if the government was running it all.
But because people can't afford healthcare and things are so screwed up... and there is no single answer to fix it all, people will demand that the government "do something". And ultimately, we'll have some form of socialized medicine. And there will be no road back we find ourselves further dependent on the government to directly provide something for us. And we'll all pay the price, especially our children.
Sorry for the rant... but Michael Moore makes my blood boil. I like Fred Thompson's response on the whole Cuba thing.
But suggesting we see the movie because something should be done would be like telling people to watch Oliver Stone's "Platoon" to learn about the history of the Vietnam War. You'd get a picture... but it wouldn't necessarily be an accurate one.
Peace...
loswhit
· 2 years ago
Good points. I guess I just am thinking that most of us are clueless when it comes to some of these truths. And until someone spends the time showing the side of the truth you speak of. Then I think this should be mandatory viewing foir the american public. We need to know what's up. And although this is not the only thing that is up. It is a start. Los
anne jackson
· 2 years ago
From personal experience (my time in the UK) i got in to see a doctor & was treated within hours of calling the NHS with my problem.
Oh, and it cost me a total of 6 GBP for my antibiotics (my cost in the states would have been 75-100 dollars US)
Also, my friends in the UK never have problems getting care when they need it. One has a chronic condition requiring many medications & care. My friend had to have his gallbladder removed (much less life threatening than a bypass) and was in the moment the pain started and out after healing. He had kidney stones a month later and was in and out, no problem.
I'm not sure about Canada, but I have heard that for the most part, the UK, and i know my own experience there has been nothing short of amazing. Pensioners don't have to pay for care or medicine at all, nor do people who live under a certain income level.
Sorry, but my $120/month asthma medicine is fighting for a NHS (I'm actually a member of a healthcare reform group). I'd like to breathe...but if it weren't for my M-I-L working at a doc's office, I couldn't afford to.
Poof, I'd be dead. I make too much money to qualify for Rx assistance. And there is no substitute for my med...so, it's either pay up or stop breathing.
Les
· 2 years ago
ScW:
I am with you 150%. Maybe even 160 or 200. Before insurance companies, what was there? You just died. I have had thousands and tens of thousands of dollars worth of medical treatment in my lifetime that I paid virtually nothing for. My eighty-five year old mother had two knees and one hip replaced. Cost to her: $000,000.00. Under socialized medicine in MOST countries of the world, she would still be laying motionless in bed waiting for her turn to schedule a scheduling of an appointment to verify scheduling of a diagnostic procedure to explore the need to schedule more scheduling.
Costs of insurance are astronomical because of frivolous lawsuits. It's not the greed of the insurance company, it's the greed of the guy who expects absolute perfection from doctors, the best of whom are simply making their best educated guesses. Or the woman who spills hot coffee in her lap while driving.
Find a tiny little country somewhere and you might be able to make socialized medicine work. Maybe even a larger island in the Pacific somewhere. But watch in caving in on itself in Europe and Canada. That should scare the ******** out of you at least.
One wishes the world were as simple as seen through the eyes of a simpleton like Michael Moore. Unfortunately the reality is that his approach is just Mooronic.
Crystal Renaud
· 2 years ago
i'd be more eager to see it if michael was in it less. i think it actually going to be an important documentary. but i think michael moore ruins it because even his name is tainted in most arenas.
Rick
· 2 years ago
I'm going to see it. I think he hit a home run with the Bowling for Columbine movie, but I never did see 911. This one looks to be good, though.
anne jackson
· 2 years ago
He's on Leno tonight.
And for those of you who haven't paid much for your health insurance, please feel free to help pay for mine.
Gallbladder Removal=12K Allergic Reaction to Bug ER=3K CT Scan for Appendix=8K
Oh, and I have insurance... but I still owe 20%.
You can paypal it to my gmail.
If you think America has great Healthcare....convince me that now that I'm paying 15% of my monthly paycheck to medical bills and have 3 things in collection. AMERICA does not have good healthcare....we are number 37 according to the WHS in healthcare...after costa rica.
Your company may provide you excellent insurance....but healthcare here is a freaking joke.
the bear
· 2 years ago
Wait 'till my wife gets ahold of this one...
LOL
mrs. bear
· 2 years ago
We all have our individual stories. Healthcare and insurance in this country are not great, however what Michael Moore is proposing would be an absolute nightmare. The single-payor system (socialized medicine) is totally giving up control of our health and putting it in the hands of the government. This is where we become numbers and statistics. People in Canada are waiting months to have an MRI only to find that they have a problem that could have been helped if they had only caught it sooner. Then they wait a few more months to have an operation. There is actually an underground movement of people coming from Canada into the US to get their MRI's and operations because they can pay for those things here. They will sell their houses and cash out on retirement and come to the US so they can pay someone to make them well. How much is your life really worth? Don't you think you would do the same? I work in health insurance and I was able to view a documentary like Michael Moore's but on the other side of this issue. I watched as a woman in Canada told her story that she was unable to have a device implanted into her bladder because it was not considered life threatening, lived with a cathater for two years, and had to have her bladder removed! Seriously, her bladder was removed!! That apparently was life threatening but the implant that would have prevented that was not something the government approved of. There is another issue here as well. Let's be honest; humans are motived by money. Most people would not become doctors if they weren't going to be paid serious bucks for it. In the US, a capitalist society, doctors have to work hard, create new and innovative techniques, and be on top of their game so that they will gain more patients and prestige and, of course, earn more money. This is what drives the quality of our healthcare. If we were under the single-payor system, doctors would not earn nearly the same amount of money that they do now. So then what drives them to do well? We would like to think that benevolence would be a factor but in real life that's usually not the case. We would be setting ourselves up for mediocrity.
I have sooooo much more to say but the bottom line is that I value my freedom and I'm not willing to give my health to the US government. I have control now. I choose what doctor I go to. I can go into thousands of dollars of debt if I want to save my bladder. If I go to a doctor tomorrow and he tells me I need an MRI, I will probably have it done by next week. Once again, our healthcare system is not perfect but I'm pleading with everyone who reads this; educate yourselves. Do not watch SiCKO and think that is the whole truth. Value your freedom enough to look at the big picture and make educated votes, not emotional ones. There. I'm off my soap box...for now.
Los
· 2 years ago
What other film is there to watch on the "other side"
Josh
· 2 years ago
Mr. Moore lies, just look at his last movie on 911. He spins the truth into what will sell. And whats more hott right now then being pissed at your government?
Rick
· 2 years ago
I'll see this one. As with anything, open-minded for possibilities and try to be bulletproof for bald-faced lies. On both sides, at the extremes. Because in the middle there's a place where we might be able to make change and do good things. If he brings the conversations back up, I'm actually for letting him toot his own horn and making a donkey of himself.
anne jackson
· 2 years ago
The thing with socialized healthcare, at least in the UK, is that doctors get paid a decent salary (one of my friends is a doctor) but receive stipends based on the health of their area of responsibility (it is usually but not always geographically based, depending on the severity of the disease).
If you look at mortality and morbidity rates in the UK, they have considerably fewer strokes, heart attacks and cancer-caused death. Most of this is because people there can afford preventative care, instead of the "wait until i get sick" to go to the doctor many of us are FORCED to live with her with crappy insurance plans.
For my husband and I to have a kid now would cost about 7,000 just in birthing/hospital expenses. Everyone has a right to affordable healthcare, and (granted, I am a libertarian so my political views play a role in this) the government should take care of the necessities...which everyone has a right to have.
I'll stop now, but I do agree everyone should be educated. Research the health rates of those with a universal health care plan vs. the USA. We are the ONLY industrialized country without a SHC plan. 25 out of 26 do. You can't tell me that's not dumb American pride and profit.
Brooke
· 2 years ago
I'm going to the Czech Republic to have in vitro done next March. It's going to cost me a total of about $7000. The cost to have it done here...15-20K, and that doesn't include a vacation to Prague. Believe me, I've done my research...their clinics are held to AMA standards, and in some regards are even better than ours here. Also, there's a rare few insurances out there that cover any form of infertility or infertility treatment, yet 1 in 10 couples struggle with it. Seems unfair, but then again...I'm sorta biased.
anne jackson
· 2 years ago
I know I am totally over commenting, but I thought Id also say that pharmaceutical companies are not allowed to advertise in the UK. No commercials, no print ads, no bus wrappers....nothing. Hmmm.
Les
· 2 years ago
"Patients who have major surgery in Britain are four times more likely to die than those in America, according to a major new study."
"Britain lags far behind America and most European countries in its critical care facilities."
"A team from University College London (UCL) and a team from Columbia University in New York jointly studied the medical fortunes of more than 1,000 patients at the Mount Sinai Hospital in Manhattan and compared them with nearly 1,100 patients who had undergone the same sort of major surgery at the Queen Alexandra Hospital in Portsmouth.
The results, which surprised even the researchers, showed that 2.5 per cent of the American patients died in hospital after major surgery, compared with just under 10 per cent of British patients. They found that there was a sevenfold difference in mortality rates when a subgroup of patients - the most seriously ill - were compared."
"One in four hospitals is so unhygienic it is putting its patients' lives at risk, it is revealed today... Around a quarter are failing to meet at least one of the three standards laid down by the Hygiene Code introduced last October."
Yes, we have our horror stories and Michael Mooron is quite astute at ferreting them out. You can't be a country this huge and not. But when you're talking about systemic change, you have to look at the big picture. Medical care is not free ANYWHERE.
There's a hard side to it whether you like it or not. I don't have any money. I grew up with barely enough to eat sometimes. I still don't understand why people say that it's not fair for wealthy people to get better medical treatment. Why it's not fair that insurance only pays 80% (ONLY?). Why insurance doesn't cover most non-life threatening conditions. I wish everyone could have the absolute best and latest technology there is. I wish I could. But I'm not whining that it's not fair. Somebody's got to pay the doctor. If you don't, say hello to a shortage of medical personnel, which is another problem in Britain (See http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/761450.stm)
If you want everyone to have the same, you've got to lower the standard. And the standard in the U.S. is much higher than anywhere else when you look at the big picture. It could be better, yes. I'm in favor of change to make things better. I'm not in favor of change to make things worse.
S. Pihlaja
· 2 years ago
Hey, piping in from Japan. 125 million people. National health coverage works like a charm. I pay about $130 a month now, based on my income, and I spilt all my medical expenses with the government 70/30 up to $500 a month, but then I don't have to pay anything. I also get a tax refund if I spend over $1000 a year on healthcare. Some curious differences between the USA and Japan, but still: if we want it to work, it will work.
I've heard that the cost of health insurance in the USA is due to lawsuits, but does anyone have any information or study about that? (This is an actual question too, not a thinly-veiled chance to slam-dunk someone.)
Someone say it! Say it! ... Okay, I'll say it for everyone who's thinking it: Michael more is a fat-ass and thus, a hypocrite.
Les
· 2 years ago
“Patients who have major surgery in Britain are four times more likely to die than those in America, according to a major new study.”
“Britain lags far behind America and most European countries in its critical care facilities.”
“A team from University College London (UCL) and a team from Columbia University in New York jointly studied the medical fortunes of more than 1,000 patients at the Mount Sinai Hospital in Manhattan and compared them with nearly 1,100 patients who had undergone the same sort of major surgery at the Queen Alexandra Hospital in Portsmouth.
The results, which surprised even the researchers, showed that 2.5 per cent of the American patients died in hospital after major surgery, compared with just under 10 per cent of British patients. They found that there was a sevenfold difference in mortality rates when a subgroup of patients - the most seriously ill - were compared.”
“One in four hospitals is so unhygienic it is putting its patients’ lives at risk, it is revealed today… Around a quarter are failing to meet at least one of the three standards laid down by the Hygiene Code introduced last October.”
Yes, we have our horror stories and Michael Mooron is quite astute at ferreting them out. You can’t be a country this huge and not. But when you’re talking about systemic change, you have to look at the big picture. Medical care is not free ANYWHERE.
There’s a hard side to it whether you like it or not. I don’t have any money. I grew up with barely enough to eat sometimes. I still don’t understand why people say that it’s not fair for wealthy people to get better medical treatment. Why it’s not fair that insurance only pays 80% (ONLY?). Why insurance doesn’t cover most non-life threatening conditions. I wish everyone could have the absolute best and latest technology there is. I wish I could. But I’m not whining that it’s not fair. Somebody’s got to pay the doctor. If you don’t, say hello to a shortage of medical personnel, which is another problem in Britain (See http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/761450.stm)
If you want everyone to have the same, you’ve got to lower the standard. And the standard in the U.S. is much higher than anywhere else when you look at the big picture. It could be better, yes. I’m in favor of change to make things better. I’m not in favor of change to make things worse.
bobby
· 2 years ago
Sorry, but for me it just comes down to this - I won't give Moore a dime of my money. Reform may be needed, I don't know enough, I admit that. But when it comes to Moore, I don't trust him, I don't like him, wont support him.
Les
· 2 years ago
S. Pihlaja:
I dunno. That sounds like an immanently workable system to me. It seems like there should be a way to tweak things like that over here. But I don't think that's what Moore is proposing.
One factor is that when medical care is free, people tend to overload the system with trivial conditions that would just get better on their own. That too, drives costs up. I had some things in another comment that wouldn't post for some reason, but maybe it will pop up later.
I would like to see the movie, but, like bobby, I refuse to line Moore's bulging hypocritical pockets with any coin from me.
Jay Sellers
· 2 years ago
I'll be going overseas with Brooke to fulfill my husbandry duty as dna donor and get my little men to jump into a cup. I'll add health care issues to my list of interview questions for random people on the street.
I might be able to test France's health care system firsthand if I get beat up for being an obnoxious American!
Les
· 2 years ago
My earlier comment posted and I saw one of my dumb-s*** mistakes in the line, "Why insurance doesn’t cover most non-life threatening conditions." That should read, "Why insurance doesn’t cover most elective surgery conditions."
Jay Sellers
· 2 years ago
For the record, I watch Michael Moore for the same reason that I read Brian McLaren: I may not always agree, but it sure does help to pull my head out the sand!
mrs. bear
· 2 years ago
S. Pihlaja: I don't know every reason health insurance rates keep rising but I know a large part of it. In the US we have HMO's (health maintainence organization). This system was meant for people who are generally healthy, need occassional doctor's visits and occassional prescriptions. It is a higher monthly premium but low co-pays (ex: $10 doctor's visits/ $20 prescriptions). What has happened is that people are over-using that unlimited and inexpensive access to healthcare. Someone might get a cold and rather than treating it at home they run to the doctor, pay $10, the insurance company then pays the doctor $90, and this happens again and again and again. Rates go up because people are losing personal responsibility for their own health.
Anne: I would love to respond to everything but I just don't have time right now. I do want to say that I attend monthly meeting for the Inland Empire Association of Health Underwriters. We're the bad guys in the eyes of Michael Moore. However, about 80% of the conversation at these meetings is about who is uninsured, why they are uninsured, and how we can get them insured. We don't want anybody to go without healthcare. And, yeah, we make money when people are insured. But once again that's a part of capitalism which creates competition which creates quality.
P.S.
The healthcare systems in Canada and the UK are bankrupt.
Crystal Renaud
· 2 years ago
i'm on anne's team.
Slade
· 2 years ago
It would be naive of me to say that many doctors are not mainly motivated by money. Surely they are. But not all. And not the best ones, in my opinion. I just can't buy the argument that doctors are basically motivated by money, and, therefore, a more universal healthcare system would strip them of their motivation and result in inferior treatment. Sure, docs like money. But the medical field is above all a service to humanity. Business? Yes. But it has to be more. Why would a doctor quit his or her practice, open a clinic in the garage for people who don't have health insurance, sacrifice material compensation (but still be more wealthy than most)? "It's all about money" sounds pretty typical of the insurance company mindset. But we really can't focus just on the anecdotes, right? I mean, I know some wonderful, honest people who work in health insurance. And there are crooked doctors. In my opinion, that's why it's important to raise the issues, to address the systematic problems, and to have the will to change things. When we want to, we can be really creative in this country. I imagine that as long as we defend either the socialized healthcare model or the status quo (ins. co. model), we probably won't make much of a change. How can we be creative with this?
(By the way, it's really interesting to me that some people have such a distrust in the "US Government" providing healthcare, but yet that they choose to trust market forces instead to keep things accountable. There has to be something else.)
justin aka j rocka
· 2 years ago
i need to go to the doctor right now, but I cant. I have to wait until the end of July.
I could be dead by then. Yet I pay xxx a month for this service.
mrs. bear
· 2 years ago
Hang in there Justin. Once we have our single payor system it will be "free." But then again, you might have to wait until the end of August or even September to see that doctor.
Les
· 2 years ago
JRocka! You can't just drop a bomb like that and walk away! What are you dying of?
Wow, Anne, I think you need a new insurance company! Maybe I'm different than others, but I pay $180 a month for me, my wife, and my 2 girls. The total cost of having 2 C-section surgeries for the girls= $0 We even charged our dinners and lunches to the room! Actually, another dr. outside our plan assisted on the surgery and I think I had to pay around $300 co-pay for him. Even though the insurance company pays the bill, they still send it to you, I must've edged out of close to $20,000! Each time! I gotta say, from the healthcare people I personally know, they think free healthcare would be insane.
My brother cut his foot pretty bad last week. He was waiting in the ER from 10pm until about 2:30am. Just imagine if everyone with a cough or the stomach flu was in the ER waiting to see a Dr....it could have been days.
Oh, and I agree with most of the michael moore comments. I think he is just as much a capitalist as the rest of them. If he's so concerned, he should make his films free. He's a hack-job conspiracy theorist who preys on americans and their fears.
loswhit
· 2 years ago
All I know is that we can all take a stand on things. But to say you will not see another sides perspective because you already have a stance is confusing. Micheal moore is already rich. I'm gonna see it because in the circles I run in he is the hated one. So whn I get a chance to hear the hated ones perspective...I like to hear it. Los
lorijo
· 2 years ago
i dont know alot about the details of healthcare, but i would be interested in seeing it. what i do know is that growing up overseas we had better health-care under my dad as an international student in australia than my family does now, here in the usa. we never worried about the bills, or having to wait to see the doctor.
I was shocked that I had to wait 2 weeks just to get an appointment with my current provider, then my original appt was canceled by the dr. and postponed two more weeks. and it was kind of a big deal.
i'm sure my mom will be wishing we had more now that my dad has cancer. oh goody, more bills, more debt, more hassle, more frustration. on top of what she already has to deal with. i have no idea how much chemo and all the drugs cost, but it can't be cheap.
usa is stuck up, and just annoying. and yes i was born here, but i don't really care. this world is not my home anyways.
Les
· 2 years ago
Los;
I agree with the perspective thing. That's why I'd like to see the movie. But this is where the old liberal argument comes in: "If you don't like it, turn it off." And I agree with that. So I'm turning it off, because I already know that Moore isn't serious. When he is, I'm ready to listen. Seriously.
If he was, he'd make this thing as a public service. Hale-Yeah has it right. Michael Moore doesn't share a "perspective" in his films. 9/11 wasn't a perspective. It was straight ahead propaganda designed to incite emotion and reap huge profits off the fears of the gullible.
If he cared as much as he claims to, he'd make it a public service. I could go see it for free, "inform" myself, and make a decision.
But where information is concerned, Moore dissembles far more than he disseminates.
Anonymous Sandals Attender
· 2 years ago
Once again....Christian Conservatives showing their IGNORANCE!!! What would Jesus do? Let people die because of the profit motive of US Healthcare Corporations? I forgot....America is a "christian" nation. Go ahead watch the film....see the Doctor testifying before congress about letting people die to make more money and advance her career. People....LOVE ONE ANOTHER is THE Christian value. Caring for one another begins with basic health care. Do some research....Church's used to care for the sick....now greedy Multi-national Corporations put together insurance schemes that bilk the poor and enrich the rich. Les has posted so much far-right political BS on this blog that I gag when I see his name. Pull your head out....Michael Moore is not the enemy. Satan is the enemy....and Satan loves to see people suffering while others are getting rich.
Les
· 2 years ago
Here. Have another gag on me.
Research? I don't notice any references on your comment. But maybe it's because you're so bursting with love and constructive criticism that you only need to toss out simplistic generalizations and everyone is supposed to be humbled into contrition and seek only to drink from your fountain of truth.
Well, you sure turned me around. From now on I'm with you. We'll hit the blogs together screaming, "LOVE ONE ANOTHER, YOU IGNORANT, B.S. SPOUTING CONSERVATIVE MORONS!"
And thus usher in the Kingdom.
the bear
· 2 years ago
"Anonymous Sandals Attender";"Christian Conservatives showing their IGNORANCE!!!";"What would Jesus do?"; "Church's used to care for the sick..."; "Les has posted so much far-right political BS on this blog that I gag when I see his name."
It is awesome that this is all in the same comment!
S. Pihlaja
· 2 years ago
Anonymous people make me gag. At least Les has the stones to admit who he is and what he believes.
Yeah, in Japan people do tend to visit the doctor to get medicine when they have just a simple cold. But rather than breaking the system, it has created opportunities for more people to become doctors and pharmacists. Their are doctors everywhere in Japan. And I suspect that this contributes, at least in a small way, to the fact that people live forever here.
As far as costs in the US system, ever the empiricist, I need facts. Numbers, analysis, conclusions. Anything like that from anyone out there?
anne jackson
· 2 years ago
talking about average wait times is null. I waited 15 minutes to see a doc I the UK where I was not a citizen for a nonlifethreatening condition but I have to wait six weeks to see the doctor who helps me breathe AND I have to pay for it.
Anonymous Sandals Attender
· 2 years ago
Yes, Les....Let's mock Jesus' teachings. You see I've read my gospels and they don't once reference Republican ideaology, health maintenance organizations or even use the new christian right evil word - LIBERAL. They do however, consistently tell me to love one another, to care for the sick and the widows and to turn the other cheek. Oh, and by the way, I've at least seen the film being discussed before typing out my diatribe but you won't because ignorance is bliss.
Abe
· 2 years ago
Man come on give me a BREAK!
If you really care about health care reform take the money you would send to to the Fat Cat racist Michael Moore and send it to Anne Jackson it will be much better spent!
Michael Moore Owned Halliburton, Defense Stocks
Filmmaker Michael Moore has made a career out of trashing corporations and said he doesn't own any stocks due to moral principle.
How then did author Peter Schweizer uncover IRS documents showing that Moore's very own foundation has bought stocks in some of America's largest corporations � including Halliburton, other defense contractors and some of the same companies he has attacked?
In his first documentary "Roger & Me," Moore skewered General Motors, Schweizer points out.
# In "The Big One," he went after Nike and PayDay candy bars.
# "Bowling for Columbine" was an attack on the American gun industry.
# Oil companies played a major role in "Fahrenheit 911."
# His upcoming film "Sicko" pillories drug companies and HMOs.
# On his television shows "TV Nation" and "The Awful Truth," he criticized HMOs and defense contractors.
He once said that major defense contractor Halliburton was run by a bunch of "thugs," and suggested that for every American killed in the Iraq war, "I would like Halliburton to slay one mid-level executive."
Publicly, Moore has claimed he wants no part of these companies and won't own stock.
In his book "Stupid White Men," he wrote: "I don't own a single share of stock."
He repeated the claim in a 1997 letter to the online magazine Salon, saying: "I don't own any stock."
Privately, however, he tells the IRS a different story, Schweizer discloses in his book.
The year that Moore claimed in "Stupid White Men" that he didn't own any stock, he told the IRS that a foundation totally controlled by Moore and his wife had more than $280,000 in corporate stock and nearly $100,000 in corporate bonds.
Over the past five years, Moore's holdings have "included such evil pharmaceutical and medical companies as Pfizer, Merck, Genzyme, Elan PLC, Eli Lilly, Becton Dickinson and Boston Scientific," writes Schweizer, whose earlier works include "The Bushes" and "Reagan's War."
"Moore's supposedly nonexistent portfolio also includes big bad energy giants like Sunoco, Noble Energy, Schlumberger, Williams Companies, Transocean Sedco Forex and Anadarko, all firms that 'deplete irreplaceable fossil fuels in the name of profit' as he put it in �Dude, Where's My Country?'
"And in perhaps the ultimate irony, he also has owned shares in Halliburton. According to IRS filings, Moore sold Halliburton for a 15 percent profit and bought shares in Noble, Ford, General Electric (another defense contractor), AOL Time Warner (evil corporate media) and McDonald's.
"Also on Moore's investment menu: defense contractors Honeywell, Boeing and Loral."
Does Moore share the stock proceeds of his "foundation" with charitable causes, you might ask?
Schweizer found that "for a man who by 2002 had a net worth in eight figures, he gave away a modest $36,000 through the foundation, much of it to his friends in the film business or tony cultural organizations that later provided him with venues to promote his books and film."
Moore's hypocrisy doesn't end with his financial holdings.
He has criticized the journalism industry and Hollywood for their lack of African-Americans in prominent positions, and in 1998 he said he personally wanted to hire minorities "who come from the working class."
In "Stupid White Men," he proclaimed his plans to "hire only black people."
But when Schweizer checked the senior credits for Moore's latest film "Fahrenheit 911," he found that of the movie's 14 producers, three editors, production manager and production coordinator, all 19 were white. So were all three cameramen and the two people who did the original music.
On "Bowling for Columbine," 13 of the 14 producers were white, as were the two executives in charge of production, the cameramen, the film editor and the music composer.
His show "TV Nation" had 13 producers, four film editors and 10 writers � but not a single African-American among them.
And as for Moore's insistence on portraying himself as "working class" and an "average Joe," Schweizer recounts this anecdote:
"When Moore flew to London to visit people at the BBC or promote a film, he took the Concorde and stayed at the Ritz. But he also allegedly booked a room at a cheap hotel down the street where he could meet with journalists and pose as a �man of humble circumstances.'"
That's hypocrisy with a capital H!
Les
· 2 years ago
ASA
Still don't see any references or research on your end. Having a little trouble finding the practice for your preach?
Anonymous Sandals Attender
· 2 years ago
Great....now we're gonna play the race card...NICE!!!! Why don't you research how many minorities were involved in Passion of the Christ or Mel's other recent films.....you might also want to check the staffs at Billy Graham's offices, Dr. Dobson or better yet....check the racial diversity at Liberty University....remember.....the most segregated places on Sundays are our churches.
Moore is a film maker making for profit movies that make us think. Since his media is intended to entertain as well as inform or educate or sway opinion he is all of a sudden held to a different standard as other entertainers? He should make his films a public service freebies? Tell that to Michael W. Smith or he oher christian entertainers who make millions on album sales as well as licensing their materials for our Sunday worship.
I suppose this is the same mentality that calls for the abolishment of the ACLU.....ok....right after you folks quit the minutemen!!!
anne jackson
· 2 years ago
Thanks Abe :) My gmail address is located on my blog for those who want to take him up on his suggestion :)
Les
· 2 years ago
ASA
Your Christian love is a little overwhelming. Michael Mooron's films make you think? REALLY? Well, I guess everyone finds their own level, but that would be a step up from your comments so far. Can you put any of that incredible depth of thought into them?
It appears more as though he's doing your thinking for you.
And again you ask us to do your research. Yet you continue to spit unfounded assertions with no evidence to support them. It becomes as tedious as it is annoying.
Actually I'm just funnin' ya. The only reason I bothered to post this one is to see you gag again. I love it when your eyes bulge out like that.
the bear
· 2 years ago
ASA stop it with the overwhelming belligerence. You're making us gag now.
-Inland Empire Chapter of the United Minutemen's Association :)
Abe
· 2 years ago
ASA
Michael W Smith is not profiting from putting the Church down, motive and hypocrisy is the problem here, not that fact that he is making money. If you need individual IRS references to the fact that Mr. Moore owns stock in the very Pharmaceutical Companies he is chastising, I would be more than happy to give you the links.
Good Day!
Anne,
Your welcome, I think this would be a great platform for your fund raising campaign!
Maybe Los should post about that?
Anne Jackson
· 2 years ago
I have NO shame whatsoever. I just want to pay off my gallbladder. It cost more than my car! :)
Jimbo
· 2 years ago
I feel much of this post has been overcomplicated... The Sicko subject is simple. The healthcare subject immensely complex.
Moore is entertainment: you like it or you don't. Moore is not a reliable information source on any important subject. If you are interested in education, it would likely be best to use more fact based sources readily available on-line. All sources have some form of bias and a researcher needs to have some understanding of the bias nature. Example: how do you evaluate a source for interpreting God's word?
I would guess that in the 2 hours it takes to be entertained by a Moore movie, an individual could read a few good articles on educational / research techniques and source reliability/credentials.
If you simply enjoy the banter, I get it. If you are serious about understanding important issues, you should take your obligation to gain wisdom seriously.
- Jimbo
Les
· 2 years ago
Jimbo:
I wish everyone had that attitude. Nor is it enough to read both sides, especially if they are the two extremes. My attitude is that there are 3 sides to every story. My side, your side, and the Truth, and all three are different. Sometimes the Truth is NOT in the middle. The Truth is NOT a compromise between to extremes.
The Truth is what it is, and must be pursued with intensity. I will drop whatever "side" I am on at any given time when convinced that the path to Truth lies in a different direction.
What Jesus said about Himself also has a universal application. He said, "You will SEEK me. But you will only FIND me when you seek me with ALL YOUR HEART." There must be no ME in the path.
In terms of political truth, I wonder if there is any. I seriously doubt it. I think we MUST choose between different degrees of failure. You can only choose the battle in which you will lose the thing of least value in order to retain a thing of greater value. But if you do not choose a battle, you lose everything.
One thing is for sure in health care. If we get stuck arguing between two choices we lose sight of the fact that there are more choices before us. I think it's possible to establish a democracy in Iraq. But it will NOT look like America and if we try to make it so, we will lose everything. It is also possible to improve the quality and availability of health care. But if we try to make it look like someone else's failed attempt, we will be in a worse place than we are now. And, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, we are choosing a path that once taken, cannot be taken back.
Les
· 2 years ago
*Heavy Sigh* That should have read, "...two extremes."
Just an observation....
· 2 years ago
Is Michael Moore really about change or is he one more interested in making noise and hearing his own voice? Michael Moore has a vested interest in folks believing and thus paying to view his movie.
All Comments
i have been fighting insurance companies for 26 months.
i am going to see it.
Even the issue of generics versus non-generics isn't simple. Politicians will go on and on about those... or buying from Canada or whatever. It all ultimately comes down to patent laws and our system of medicine here. How much money does a company have to recoup for millions in research and millions in lawsuits when/if some weird reaction screws up somebody's life. And then after a few years, their published formula (that they spent millions researching and testing) can then be produced by other companies (generics). So they get this window to work in.
The reality is... what we have is certainly better than a lot of other places. People have pointed out that had Bill Clinton been in the UK or Canada (and been a regular citizen) versus the US, he'd have had to have waited months instead of days to have his heart surgery. That's government efficiency. The next time you get frustrated at the insurance company, ask yourself if it really would be better if the government was running it all.
But because people can't afford healthcare and things are so screwed up... and there is no single answer to fix it all, people will demand that the government "do something". And ultimately, we'll have some form of socialized medicine. And there will be no road back we find ourselves further dependent on the government to directly provide something for us. And we'll all pay the price, especially our children.
Sorry for the rant... but Michael Moore makes my blood boil. I like Fred Thompson's response on the whole Cuba thing.
But suggesting we see the movie because something should be done would be like telling people to watch Oliver Stone's "Platoon" to learn about the history of the Vietnam War. You'd get a picture... but it wouldn't necessarily be an accurate one.
Peace...
Los
Oh, and it cost me a total of 6 GBP for my antibiotics (my cost in the states would have been 75-100 dollars US)
Also, my friends in the UK never have problems getting care when they need it. One has a chronic condition requiring many medications & care. My friend had to have his gallbladder removed (much less life threatening than a bypass) and was in the moment the pain started and out after healing. He had kidney stones a month later and was in and out, no problem.
I'm not sure about Canada, but I have heard that for the most part, the UK, and i know my own experience there has been nothing short of amazing. Pensioners don't have to pay for care or medicine at all, nor do people who live under a certain income level.
Sorry, but my $120/month asthma medicine is fighting for a NHS (I'm actually a member of a healthcare reform group). I'd like to breathe...but if it weren't for my M-I-L working at a doc's office, I couldn't afford to.
Poof, I'd be dead. I make too much money to qualify for Rx assistance. And there is no substitute for my med...so, it's either pay up or stop breathing.
I am with you 150%. Maybe even 160 or 200. Before insurance companies, what was there? You just died. I have had thousands and tens of thousands of dollars worth of medical treatment in my lifetime that I paid virtually nothing for. My eighty-five year old mother had two knees and one hip replaced. Cost to her: $000,000.00. Under socialized medicine in MOST countries of the world, she would still be laying motionless in bed waiting for her turn to schedule a scheduling of an appointment to verify scheduling of a diagnostic procedure to explore the need to schedule more scheduling.
Costs of insurance are astronomical because of frivolous lawsuits. It's not the greed of the insurance company, it's the greed of the guy who expects absolute perfection from doctors, the best of whom are simply making their best educated guesses. Or the woman who spills hot coffee in her lap while driving.
Find a tiny little country somewhere and you might be able to make socialized medicine work. Maybe even a larger island in the Pacific somewhere. But watch in caving in on itself in Europe and Canada. That should scare the ******** out of you at least.
One wishes the world were as simple as seen through the eyes of a simpleton like Michael Moore. Unfortunately the reality is that his approach is just Mooronic.
And for those of you who haven't paid much for your health insurance, please feel free to help pay for mine.
Gallbladder Removal=12K
Allergic Reaction to Bug ER=3K
CT Scan for Appendix=8K
Oh, and I have insurance...
but I still owe 20%.
You can paypal it to my gmail.
If you think America has great Healthcare....convince me that now that I'm paying 15% of my monthly paycheck to medical bills and have 3 things in collection. AMERICA does not have good healthcare....we are number 37 according to the WHS in healthcare...after costa rica.
Your company may provide you excellent insurance....but healthcare here is a freaking joke.
LOL
I work in health insurance and I was able to view a documentary like Michael Moore's but on the other side of this issue. I watched as a woman in Canada told her story that she was unable to have a device implanted into her bladder because it was not considered life threatening, lived with a cathater for two years, and had to have her bladder removed! Seriously, her bladder was removed!! That apparently was life threatening but the implant that would have prevented that was not something the government approved of.
There is another issue here as well. Let's be honest; humans are motived by money. Most people would not become doctors if they weren't going to be paid serious bucks for it. In the US, a capitalist society, doctors have to work hard, create new and innovative techniques, and be on top of their game so that they will gain more patients and prestige and, of course, earn more money. This is what drives the quality of our healthcare. If we were under the single-payor system, doctors would not earn nearly the same amount of money that they do now. So then what drives them to do well? We would like to think that benevolence would be a factor but in real life that's usually not the case. We would be setting ourselves up for mediocrity.
I have sooooo much more to say but the bottom line is that I value my freedom and I'm not willing to give my health to the US government. I have control now. I choose what doctor I go to. I can go into thousands of dollars of debt if I want to save my bladder. If I go to a doctor tomorrow and he tells me I need an MRI, I will probably have it done by next week. Once again, our healthcare system is not perfect but I'm pleading with everyone who reads this; educate yourselves. Do not watch SiCKO and think that is the whole truth. Value your freedom enough to look at the big picture and make educated votes, not emotional ones.
There. I'm off my soap box...for now.
If you look at mortality and morbidity rates in the UK, they have considerably fewer strokes, heart attacks and cancer-caused death. Most of this is because people there can afford preventative care, instead of the "wait until i get sick" to go to the doctor many of us are FORCED to live with her with crappy insurance plans.
For my husband and I to have a kid now would cost about 7,000 just in birthing/hospital expenses. Everyone has a right to affordable healthcare, and (granted, I am a libertarian so my political views play a role in this) the government should take care of the necessities...which everyone has a right to have.
I'll stop now, but I do agree everyone should be educated. Research the health rates of those with a universal health care plan vs. the USA. We are the ONLY industrialized country without a SHC plan. 25 out of 26 do. You can't tell me that's not dumb American pride and profit.
"Britain lags far behind America and most European countries in its critical care facilities."
"A team from University College London (UCL) and a team from Columbia University in New York jointly studied the medical fortunes of more than 1,000 patients at the Mount Sinai Hospital in Manhattan and compared them with nearly 1,100 patients who had undergone the same sort of major surgery at the Queen Alexandra Hospital in Portsmouth.
The results, which surprised even the researchers, showed that 2.5 per cent of the American patients died in hospital after major surgery, compared with just under 10 per cent of British patients. They found that there was a sevenfold difference in mortality rates when a subgroup of patients - the most seriously ill - were compared."
This from an article in the Guardian in 2003. (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/nhs/story/0,1480...).
"One in four hospitals is so unhygienic it is putting its patients' lives at risk, it is revealed today... Around a quarter are failing to meet at least one of the three standards laid down by the Hygiene Code introduced last October."
That is from today's London's "Evening Standard." (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-2340... of the filthy hospital wards/article.do).
"Field Marshal Lord Bramall said once injured soldiers were brought back to the UK they were left to languish on NHS waiting lists."
And that one is from the BBC in 2006. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5405346.stm)
Yes, we have our horror stories and Michael Mooron is quite astute at ferreting them out. You can't be a country this huge and not. But when you're talking about systemic change, you have to look at the big picture. Medical care is not free ANYWHERE.
There's a hard side to it whether you like it or not. I don't have any money. I grew up with barely enough to eat sometimes. I still don't understand why people say that it's not fair for wealthy people to get better medical treatment. Why it's not fair that insurance only pays 80% (ONLY?). Why insurance doesn't cover most non-life threatening conditions. I wish everyone could have the absolute best and latest technology there is. I wish I could. But I'm not whining that it's not fair. Somebody's got to pay the doctor. If you don't, say hello to a shortage of medical personnel, which is another problem in Britain (See http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/761450.stm)
If you want everyone to have the same, you've got to lower the standard. And the standard in the U.S. is much higher than anywhere else when you look at the big picture. It could be better, yes. I'm in favor of change to make things better. I'm not in favor of change to make things worse.
I've heard that the cost of health insurance in the USA is due to lawsuits, but does anyone have any information or study about that? (This is an actual question too, not a thinly-veiled chance to slam-dunk someone.)
Someone say it! Say it! ... Okay, I'll say it for everyone who's thinking it: Michael more is a fat-ass and thus, a hypocrite.
“Britain lags far behind America and most European countries in its critical care facilities.”
“A team from University College London (UCL) and a team from Columbia University in New York jointly studied the medical fortunes of more than 1,000 patients at the Mount Sinai Hospital in Manhattan and compared them with nearly 1,100 patients who had undergone the same sort of major surgery at the Queen Alexandra Hospital in Portsmouth.
The results, which surprised even the researchers, showed that 2.5 per cent of the American patients died in hospital after major surgery, compared with just under 10 per cent of British patients. They found that there was a sevenfold difference in mortality rates when a subgroup of patients - the most seriously ill - were compared.”
This from an article in the Guardian in 2003. (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/nhs/story/0,1480...).
“One in four hospitals is so unhygienic it is putting its patients’ lives at risk, it is revealed today… Around a quarter are failing to meet at least one of the three standards laid down by the Hygiene Code introduced last October.”
That is from today’s London’s “Evening Standard.” (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-2340... of the filthy hospital wards/article.do).
“Field Marshal Lord Bramall said once injured soldiers were brought back to the UK they were left to languish on NHS waiting lists.”
And that one is from the BBC in 2006. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5405346.stm)
Yes, we have our horror stories and Michael Mooron is quite astute at ferreting them out. You can’t be a country this huge and not. But when you’re talking about systemic change, you have to look at the big picture. Medical care is not free ANYWHERE.
There’s a hard side to it whether you like it or not. I don’t have any money. I grew up with barely enough to eat sometimes. I still don’t understand why people say that it’s not fair for wealthy people to get better medical treatment. Why it’s not fair that insurance only pays 80% (ONLY?). Why insurance doesn’t cover most non-life threatening conditions. I wish everyone could have the absolute best and latest technology there is. I wish I could. But I’m not whining that it’s not fair. Somebody’s got to pay the doctor. If you don’t, say hello to a shortage of medical personnel, which is another problem in Britain (See http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/761450.stm)
If you want everyone to have the same, you’ve got to lower the standard. And the standard in the U.S. is much higher than anywhere else when you look at the big picture. It could be better, yes. I’m in favor of change to make things better. I’m not in favor of change to make things worse.
I dunno. That sounds like an immanently workable system to me. It seems like there should be a way to tweak things like that over here. But I don't think that's what Moore is proposing.
One factor is that when medical care is free, people tend to overload the system with trivial conditions that would just get better on their own. That too, drives costs up. I had some things in another comment that wouldn't post for some reason, but maybe it will pop up later.
I would like to see the movie, but, like bobby, I refuse to line Moore's bulging hypocritical pockets with any coin from me.
I might be able to test France's health care system firsthand if I get beat up for being an obnoxious American!
Anne: I would love to respond to everything but I just don't have time right now. I do want to say that I attend monthly meeting for the Inland Empire Association of Health Underwriters. We're the bad guys in the eyes of Michael Moore. However, about 80% of the conversation at these meetings is about who is uninsured, why they are uninsured, and how we can get them insured. We don't want anybody to go without healthcare. And, yeah, we make money when people are insured. But once again that's a part of capitalism which creates competition which creates quality.
P.S.
The healthcare systems in Canada and the UK are bankrupt.
(By the way, it's really interesting to me that some people have such a distrust in the "US Government" providing healthcare, but yet that they choose to trust market forces instead to keep things accountable. There has to be something else.)
I could be dead by then. Yet I pay xxx a month for this service.
In Britain you would have to wait from 6-8 months just to get started.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?x...
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/nhs/story/0,,661...
I'm on mrs. bear's team.
My brother cut his foot pretty bad last week. He was waiting in the ER from 10pm until about 2:30am. Just imagine if everyone with a cough or the stomach flu was in the ER waiting to see a Dr....it could have been days.
Oh, and I agree with most of the michael moore comments. I think he is just as much a capitalist as the rest of them. If he's so concerned, he should make his films free. He's a hack-job conspiracy theorist who preys on americans and their fears.
Los
seeing it.
what i do know is that growing up overseas we had better health-care under my dad as an international student in australia than my family does now, here in the usa. we never worried about the bills, or having to wait to see the doctor.
I was shocked that I had to wait 2 weeks just to get an appointment with my current provider, then my original appt was canceled by the dr. and postponed two more weeks. and it was kind of a big deal.
i'm sure my mom will be wishing we had more now that my dad has cancer. oh goody, more bills, more debt, more hassle, more frustration. on top of what she already has to deal with. i have no idea how much chemo and all the drugs cost, but it can't be cheap.
usa is stuck up, and just annoying. and yes i was born here, but i don't really care. this world is not my home anyways.
I agree with the perspective thing. That's why I'd like to see the movie. But this is where the old liberal argument comes in: "If you don't like it, turn it off." And I agree with that. So I'm turning it off, because I already know that Moore isn't serious. When he is, I'm ready to listen. Seriously.
If he was, he'd make this thing as a public service. Hale-Yeah has it right. Michael Moore doesn't share a "perspective" in his films. 9/11 wasn't a perspective. It was straight ahead propaganda designed to incite emotion and reap huge profits off the fears of the gullible.
If he cared as much as he claims to, he'd make it a public service. I could go see it for free, "inform" myself, and make a decision.
But where information is concerned, Moore dissembles far more than he disseminates.
Research? I don't notice any references on your comment. But maybe it's because you're so bursting with love and constructive criticism that you only need to toss out simplistic generalizations and everyone is supposed to be humbled into contrition and seek only to drink from your fountain of truth.
Well, you sure turned me around. From now on I'm with you. We'll hit the blogs together screaming, "LOVE ONE ANOTHER, YOU IGNORANT, B.S. SPOUTING CONSERVATIVE MORONS!"
And thus usher in the Kingdom.
It is awesome that this is all in the same comment!
Yeah, in Japan people do tend to visit the doctor to get medicine when they have just a simple cold. But rather than breaking the system, it has created opportunities for more people to become doctors and pharmacists. Their are doctors everywhere in Japan. And I suspect that this contributes, at least in a small way, to the fact that people live forever here.
As far as costs in the US system, ever the empiricist, I need facts. Numbers, analysis, conclusions. Anything like that from anyone out there?
If you really care about health care reform take the money you would send to to the Fat Cat racist Michael Moore and send it to Anne Jackson it will be much better spent!
Michael Moore Owned Halliburton, Defense Stocks
Filmmaker Michael Moore has made a career out of trashing corporations and said he doesn't own any stocks due to moral principle.
How then did author Peter Schweizer uncover IRS documents showing that Moore's very own foundation has bought stocks in some of America's largest corporations � including Halliburton, other defense contractors and some of the same companies he has attacked?
In his first documentary "Roger & Me," Moore skewered General Motors, Schweizer points out.
# In "The Big One," he went after Nike and PayDay candy bars.
# "Bowling for Columbine" was an attack on the American gun industry.
# Oil companies played a major role in "Fahrenheit 911."
# His upcoming film "Sicko" pillories drug companies and HMOs.
# On his television shows "TV Nation" and "The Awful Truth," he criticized HMOs and defense contractors.
He once said that major defense contractor Halliburton was run by a bunch of "thugs," and suggested that for every American killed in the Iraq war, "I would like Halliburton to slay one mid-level executive."
Publicly, Moore has claimed he wants no part of these companies and won't own stock.
In his book "Stupid White Men," he wrote: "I don't own a single share of stock."
He repeated the claim in a 1997 letter to the online magazine Salon, saying: "I don't own any stock."
Privately, however, he tells the IRS a different story, Schweizer discloses in his book.
The year that Moore claimed in "Stupid White Men" that he didn't own any stock, he told the IRS that a foundation totally controlled by Moore and his wife had more than $280,000 in corporate stock and nearly $100,000 in corporate bonds.
Over the past five years, Moore's holdings have "included such evil pharmaceutical and medical companies as Pfizer, Merck, Genzyme, Elan PLC, Eli Lilly, Becton Dickinson and Boston Scientific," writes Schweizer, whose earlier works include "The Bushes" and "Reagan's War."
"Moore's supposedly nonexistent portfolio also includes big bad energy giants like Sunoco, Noble Energy, Schlumberger, Williams Companies, Transocean Sedco Forex and Anadarko, all firms that 'deplete irreplaceable fossil fuels in the name of profit' as he put it in �Dude, Where's My Country?'
"And in perhaps the ultimate irony, he also has owned shares in Halliburton. According to IRS filings, Moore sold Halliburton for a 15 percent profit and bought shares in Noble, Ford, General Electric (another defense contractor), AOL Time Warner (evil corporate media) and McDonald's.
"Also on Moore's investment menu: defense contractors Honeywell, Boeing and Loral."
Does Moore share the stock proceeds of his "foundation" with charitable causes, you might ask?
Schweizer found that "for a man who by 2002 had a net worth in eight figures, he gave away a modest $36,000 through the foundation, much of it to his friends in the film business or tony cultural organizations that later provided him with venues to promote his books and film."
Moore's hypocrisy doesn't end with his financial holdings.
He has criticized the journalism industry and Hollywood for their lack of African-Americans in prominent positions, and in 1998 he said he personally wanted to hire minorities "who come from the working class."
In "Stupid White Men," he proclaimed his plans to "hire only black people."
But when Schweizer checked the senior credits for Moore's latest film "Fahrenheit 911," he found that of the movie's 14 producers, three editors, production manager and production coordinator, all 19 were white. So were all three cameramen and the two people who did the original music.
On "Bowling for Columbine," 13 of the 14 producers were white, as were the two executives in charge of production, the cameramen, the film editor and the music composer.
His show "TV Nation" had 13 producers, four film editors and 10 writers � but not a single African-American among them.
And as for Moore's insistence on portraying himself as "working class" and an "average Joe," Schweizer recounts this anecdote:
"When Moore flew to London to visit people at the BBC or promote a film, he took the Concorde and stayed at the Ritz. But he also allegedly booked a room at a cheap hotel down the street where he could meet with journalists and pose as a �man of humble circumstances.'"
That's hypocrisy with a capital H!
Still don't see any references or research on your end. Having a little trouble finding the practice for your preach?
Moore is a film maker making for profit movies that make us think. Since his media is intended to entertain as well as inform or educate or sway opinion he is all of a sudden held to a different standard as other entertainers? He should make his films a public service freebies? Tell that to Michael W. Smith or he oher christian entertainers who make millions on album sales as well as licensing their materials for our Sunday worship.
I suppose this is the same mentality that calls for the abolishment of the ACLU.....ok....right after you folks quit the minutemen!!!
Your Christian love is a little overwhelming. Michael Mooron's films make you think? REALLY? Well, I guess everyone finds their own level, but that would be a step up from your comments so far. Can you put any of that incredible depth of thought into them?
It appears more as though he's doing your thinking for you.
And again you ask us to do your research. Yet you continue to spit unfounded assertions with no evidence to support them. It becomes as tedious as it is annoying.
Actually I'm just funnin' ya. The only reason I bothered to post this one is to see you gag again. I love it when your eyes bulge out like that.
-Inland Empire Chapter of the United Minutemen's Association :)
Michael W Smith is not profiting from putting the Church down, motive and hypocrisy is the problem here, not that fact that he is making money. If you need individual IRS references to the fact that Mr. Moore owns stock in the very Pharmaceutical Companies he is chastising, I would be more than happy to give you the links.
Good Day!
Anne,
Your welcome, I think this would be a great platform for your fund raising campaign!
Maybe Los should post about that?
Moore is entertainment: you like it or you don't. Moore is not a reliable information source on any important subject. If you are interested in education, it would likely be best to use more fact based sources readily available on-line. All sources have some form of bias and a researcher needs to have some understanding of the bias nature. Example: how do you evaluate a source for interpreting God's word?
I would guess that in the 2 hours it takes to be entertained by a Moore movie, an individual could read a few good articles on educational / research techniques and source reliability/credentials.
If you simply enjoy the banter, I get it. If you are serious about understanding important issues, you should take your obligation to gain wisdom seriously.
- Jimbo
I wish everyone had that attitude. Nor is it enough to read both sides, especially if they are the two extremes. My attitude is that there are 3 sides to every story. My side, your side, and the Truth, and all three are different. Sometimes the Truth is NOT in the middle. The Truth is NOT a compromise between to extremes.
The Truth is what it is, and must be pursued with intensity. I will drop whatever "side" I am on at any given time when convinced that the path to Truth lies in a different direction.
What Jesus said about Himself also has a universal application. He said, "You will SEEK me. But you will only FIND me when you seek me with ALL YOUR HEART." There must be no ME in the path.
In terms of political truth, I wonder if there is any. I seriously doubt it. I think we MUST choose between different degrees of failure. You can only choose the battle in which you will lose the thing of least value in order to retain a thing of greater value. But if you do not choose a battle, you lose everything.
One thing is for sure in health care. If we get stuck arguing between two choices we lose sight of the fact that there are more choices before us. I think it's possible to establish a democracy in Iraq. But it will NOT look like America and if we try to make it so, we will lose everything. It is also possible to improve the quality and availability of health care. But if we try to make it look like someone else's failed attempt, we will be in a worse place than we are now. And, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, we are choosing a path that once taken, cannot be taken back.
That should have read, "...two extremes."