Ragamuffin Soul - Latest Comments in Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

loswhit — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:32:53 -0000

So I am shutting the comments down for this post. "What?!" has done exactly what we were trying to avoid.
Thank you everyone who discussed responsibly and honorably.
I just want to protect the integrity of the majority of the commentors on this post.
We can not convince people one way or another on blog. That is for sure.
You guys ROCK!!!
Los

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

Mark — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:12:40 -0000

mr. or mrs anonymous what?!
You have been the exact thing that 82 people have tried to avoid on this site. Spewing venom.
Can you not see you are an embarassment to everything North Point stands for?
Your cowardliness is laughable.
This is a community of people who are not hiding anything.
1. you come in anonymous. Which is cowardly. Give us your first and last name.
2. you come in attacking.
3. you have spent way too long typing nonsense tonight instead of doing something useful with your time like praying for your unbelieving friends to accept Jesus.
Stop spewing and go do something useful with your fingers.
Please leave.
Mark

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

What? — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:59:51 -0000

You have no idea what Billy Graham is praying for...please - what an insult that you assume to get into the mind of Billy Graham at this moment.

All I am trying to say that if you are a worship leader at Buckhead Church and you own a private website and you try to combine what you do at the church and mix it all in with your world view there is contrast here. The two do not mix very well. It gives the impression that North Point/ Buckhead / Brownsbridge are some political machine with people in a leadership position talking about things that do not mix well together. What doe Barack have to do with playing The Drummer Boy in a cool way? NOTHING!

Read Barack's church's mission statement and compare them with what Andy has to say. It is a contrast and I just happen to know that to be a fact. This is not a threat - a fact. Huge difference. I will know what Andy feels about this site and we will see if this is against his belief.

Once again you are trying to dumb down God and the Birth of Christ by making it about what you beleive. It cannot be that way. To those who much are given - much is expected. To lead the lost in the wrong direction is dangerous.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

Billy Graham is praying for Wh — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:40:17 -0000

I'm a democrat...
Read This

Signed,
Billy Graham

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

What? — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:31:35 -0000

You are now in America and we have a political system that is called a democracy. Where I disagree as to where this forum has been lost - it is in the fact that the operator of this forum got political and has linked songs played at Buckhead on his personal site. Where he is going wrong is using a public forum to link it to a Church where there is much disagreement going on now about his political views. There is a time and place for everything.

God made man, God also made Kings and put the President in the Whitehouse. The God I serve is in control and wars have been going on since Cain and Able - brother against brother.

What you don't use is your position at a church to impress others to think about a particular Candidate. That is not what Andy is all about. I happen to know that this is a fact. I also happen to know that many are disturbed over the fact that this website aligns itself with North Point/Browns Bridge and Buckhead Church. Something I know Andy would be in total disagreement with.

When leading followers to Christ the focus should be on Jesus - not on the messenger or his talent to be a worship leader. The light is on Los's way of looking at things and using his time of worship at Buckhead become the focal point of making him the star - therefore spotlighting Barack. This is misleading and I guarantee that Andy would not agree with this - I know he would not.

When we are deep rooted in a real relationship with the Living God - Christ Jesus you know the truth from the fluff. Your relationship with HIM does steer your political beliefs. It is woven together in your heart and soul. You can leave the dema-gog-gery for the weak minded to believe. All of this is to fluff up the operator of the site - not God. There have been war since God created the world and man fell in the Garden of Eden. We are to free the oppressed of Iraq so that 20 years from now a grateful generation of children will know that America set them free! Obama did not want this war because he chooses to be free of the scrutiny of being a Commander in Chief.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

CG — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:29:15 -0000

What?
That kinda sounded threatening...? You might not be aware of this, but Andy hired Carlos...BECAUSE HE IS CARLOS. As a staff member, I can tell you that being real is valued way above office politics.

Politically speaking, although I am a staunch conservative, I can tell you that it actually is possible to be an Obama follower and a Christian. In fact, in many ways, Democratic social policies are much more Christ-like than Republican policies...we mostly disagree on whose responsibility it is to solve those problems...the government or the free market?

If your comments were intended to scare Carlos into being quiet...shame on you. Seriously, shame on you. For dramatic effect... ... ...shame on you.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

loswhit — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:54:21 -0000

JC -Well put.
What?! - um, well, thanks for your opinions? I think.
Browns Bridge - Thanks for showing how to respectfully disagree.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

JC — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:49:11 -0000

Pipe it down fellows.

Carlos, way to initiate some thoughts!

“What” I don’t agree with your statement “you cant be a Christian and be for Obama.

I work at NP. I am not a republican and I am not a Democrat.

I am just a person. A Christian (follower of Christ) Ahh.. I was born and raised in South America... What does that has to do with anything? Nothing. Other than, being born and raised in another country does give me a different perspective in politics than most Americans.

You see, in my world it is not about being Republican and/or Democrat. Just people. And you use your liberty to choose the leader you want. That is why I respect Carlos. And disagree with the "What"

A Professor told me this in Seminary a few years ago. “Hold your position/conviction, leave room for the rest”

For example, in America many Christians support the war. And some even think God chose America to free other people and so forth... I don’t agree with that. That does not even sound Christian to me. However, I have great friends who support the war and all that stuff. I have a different position, but I leave room for other people. Why, because I don’t know it all. And someone may prove me wrong. So I try to walk humbly.

Here is my view on that.
If you see the history of the church, when the followers of Jesus were oppressed and persecuted, they fled to the next town. (And led more people to Jesus there:) but they never fought against any regime. It was simple. They used their civil liberties and when oppressed, they fled. And by the way, they were truly oppressed.

In America, I have seen a part of Christianity I never experienced before. People using Christianity to defend a political position. Can’t agree with that. That’s what the Catholic church did and we know how that went... I don’t think they have apologized yet, have they?

So, I say hold your conviction and leave room for the rest. Use your liberties to choose who you think is best and leave room for the rest.

The dialogue is healthy

That’s my 2 cents.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

What? — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:13:24 -0000

Know what they believe! Know that they believe you loose your salvation and are not born with sin. This is Barack Hussein Obama. Know him!

www.tucc.org

Mission Statement: What Trinity Is About

Trinity United Church of Christ has been called by God to be a congregation that is not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that does not apologize for its African roots! As a congregation of baptized believers, we are called to be agents of liberation not only for the oppressed, but for all of God’s family. We, as a church family, acknowledge, that we will, building on this affirmation of "who we are" and "whose we are," call men, women, boys and girls to the liberating love of Jesus Christ, inviting them to become a part of the church universal, responding to Jesus’ command that we go into all the world and make disciples!

We are called out to be "a chosen people" that pays no attention to socio-economic or educational backgrounds. We are made up of the highly educated and the uneducated. Our congregation is a combination of the haves and the have-nots; the economically disadvantaged, the under-class, the unemployed and the employable.

The fortunate who are among us combine forces with the less fortunate to become agents of change for God who is not pleased with America’s economic mal-distribution!

W.E.B. DuBois indicated that the problem in the 20th century was going to be the problem of the color line. He was absolutely correct. Our job as servants of God is to address that problem and eradicate it in the name of Him who came for the whole world by calling all men, women, boys and girls to Christ.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

What? — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:01:40 -0000

Are you serious?

If Andy reads this - Hi Andy we have met you know me. What I am concerned about is that you read this Andy and it is all okay with you. Would you allow your three kids to read what this guy has to say? His approach to God and the way he dumbs down North Point and represents Buckhead Church. Makes it seem more like a club than a place of worship - not good.

This has really distressed some people who know Andy well and some who have known him since he was a young boy.

You cannot be for Obama and be a Christian. Do you even know anything about Barack's faith? His church? Very scary and contrary to North Point. You need to know where Obama's faith is about before you think he is the one.

This is all a shame and I am dissapointed in Andy.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

What? — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:50:35 -0000

Do you not realize that people from Buckhead Church are getting upset about your site? You are out of line with the Obama thing and the way you try to make Church seem hip instead of Holy. It will not be good when Andy is told about all of this. You are dumbing down God and all that North Point has tried to stand for. I mean to tell you people at the top are not going to be happy.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

What? — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:05:33 -0000

Does Andy know anything that what you represent on here may mislead people about him?

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

xBrownsXBridgex — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:14:15 -0000

Los, I am a late adopter. But after reading all of the comments, I felt it necessary to post a response.

For alot of my life, I thought that politics religion were like Christ the church. As I matured, I realized that's as far from the truth as Bill Clinton's "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." (Ok, that was a low blow. Literally. Ok, ok. Sorry. I couldn't help it.)

I agree with many of the comments above; but geektom's are the most important. Fact of the matter is, we've forgotten who Jesus is. He's Jesus. He's the freakin' Savior of the world, guys. You can put Hillary, Obama, Giuliani or Bush 43 again and things are going to happen as God intended them too. As Christians, we lose sight of the fact that when God was chilling out in the middle of the universe and decided to create the heavans and the earth, that he also went ahead and designed our lives. How does that verse go? Ah yes. I knew you before you were in the womb. My point being, back when Moses was running the Jews around the desert, God already knew who was going to be appointed president. And in the sentiments of geektom, Jesus is going to accomplish the same will regardless of who is living at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Without getting all theological on you cats, there's a concept known as predestination. You either believe it, or you don't. It's a concept that they talk about in seminary and few pastors have dared talk about it. Andy's dad, Charles, is one of the few that touched on this topic a ways back. If you have a chance, Google it. Wiki it. Read up on it. It's something that will change the way you look at the Gospel, Jesus, The Cross and what we do on a daily basis.

Los, while I don't agree with your choice on Obama (in my humble opinion he's inexperienced), I love your call to action. Personally, I'm with Rudy. Have been since he came out. I like his leadership, but he too has his skeletons.

Too many times, Christians are afraid to talk openly about politics because there's this notion that all Christians are Republicans or Conservatives. We live in a time where that's not the case. Luckily, we live in a country that supports diversity; that supports a value system where we can worship the god/God of our choice; we can vote for the candidate that we believe is the best choice; and most of all, we can have open dialogue and communication like this.

****

I currently attend Browns Bridge. I have a gay couple that goes with me and my wife every Sunday. And there have been times where Sunday morning came too quick and I stayed in bed. They got up and went without us. We need to stop judging and take on the heart of Christ.

Do I support gay marriage? No. Do I think homosexuals should be allowed to lead a small group or serve as an elder? No. And I say that with a knot in my throat because I am just as big of a sinner as the next guy. BUT gays should be welcomed with open arms; be invited to participate in worship, in small groups, etc. I'm just not sure that as a church we are ready to say that gays are able to lead a body of believers. If you ask anyone on the NP Ministry staff (Browns Bridge, North Point, Buckhead, Andy, Louie, Jeff, etc.), no one will touch that topic because it is so difficult for us to overcome.

But Daren is right: Christ would be hanging out with the folks that don't have their stuff together. And if we were honest with ourselves, we'd all be at the same end of the table. Everyone sins. Everyone was born a sinner. We're all the same. We're all nothing without Christ. We're all something with Christ.

Thanks again Los for your honesty.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

bryonm — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:26:23 -0000

i rarely read the oprah best sellers

but i might vote for dr. phil if he ran

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

loswhit — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:57:47 -0000

Dang Tom. Please dont be a stranger. You pop in for a second and spit wisdom that i look around the blog world for weeks to find.
Well put.
Los

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

geektom — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:43:25 -0000

Jesus would not care any more WHO was President than he did who was Caesar. The current political leader here in my home country has nothing to do with my Christian faith-- just like my faith wouldn't change if I was living in Saudi Arabia.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

Les — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 17:51:59 -0000

The reason Obama is so attractive is his skill with rhetoric. He talks a great game. But he is an empty suit. He's too soon. He needs to work in the political arena longer before throwing in for the Presidency. Previous posts notwithstanding, he has no real "track record."

And you can't say "Ron Paul" and then follow that with the word, "seriously." It sounds too much like a Saturday Night Live shtick. Seriously.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

Kristiapplesauce — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 02:36:38 -0000

My stomach hurts.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

ScW — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:07:53 -0000

@S. Pihlaja -- Well... I hesitate to point out that we would have had a conservative majority had judge Bork not been Bork'd. Instead we got Souter and Kennedy who have turned out to be plain old libs... all along, we've been close. And finally we've gained some ground. Congress passed the partial birth abortion ban under Clinton and he veto'd it. Again, the POTUS has an affect on the issue. And nope, we'll never eliminate abortion, but we need to make sure we're not electing a government that helps to pay for it... or government that protects the idea of abortion so much that puts the lives of women at greater risk because they are unwilling to put further restrictions on how/when/where it's performed. States need to be able to pass stricter regulations on how and when they can be performed without having their laws struck down at the federal level.

As Carlos can testify here, if the state of California can require a man to go to a class before being allowed to have a Vasectomy, then surely we can put some better requirements around abortions. The idea first and foremost is to not have a government that subsidizes or encourages sin (specifically murder in this case).

On the war, I would argue, whether it's right or wrong that we're in Iraq and Afghanistan, it would be morally wrong to just pack up and leave immediately. So when Obama gets up on stage and promises 16 months to home, it basically makes the statement that "hey, we've lost and we're going home." That's the dumbest message I can imagine sending to the terrorists who have gone into Iraq and who are coming into Afghanistan from placing like Pakistan. In Iraq, especially, the military leaders and not lying when they say that they are making significant progress. Look at the reports of people on the ground (check out Michael Yon's excellent site for example -- he's been embedded in Iraq for years now) where folks who are really there are seeing significant progress... which is also why there are some slight reductions already in troop presence. The democrats' plan is nothing short of attempting to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory... "hurry up and get out of here before we actually win".

Certainly, there will never be some Utopian democracy there, but we can certainly leave things in such a state that the Iraqi's won't get totally wiped off the map when we leave. And that's been Huckabee's point (to just pick someone specifically), we must see it through to a decent conclusion. Plus, leaving it in chaos could significantly aid Iran or Syria in gaining influence in the region and weakening our overall national security.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

S. Pihlaja — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:31:08 -0000

Okay, for the abortion is the only issue that matters folks, it seems you think the best was to eradicate abortion is to have a supreme court ruling that will go in your favor. There are a couple of problems with that idea. First, supreme court justices aren't robots. We've had, what, 23 or 24 years of Republican presidents since R v. W and abortion is still legal. Second, imagine even if you were able to get a clear case before the court that would clearly overturn R v. W. With half of America opposing it, there would serious problems. You'd have doctors performing illegal abortions, going to jail. You'd have women all over TV talking about how they have no options. It would be very difficult to enforce and unless there was some traction socially, it would be overturned again. Partial birth abortion will likely stand because people in our society find it offensive. The same could not be said of first trimester abortions.

The goal, I think, should be reducing abortions, not making some political/ moral statement. For me, this means that if distributing birth control in high schools reduces abortions, fine: whatever it takes. Right now, the argument is at a stalemate because of religion. Christian leaders define opposition to abortion with Christian principals. This makes the argument very easy to ignore if you're not a Christian. That's why I think an atheist or two could help re-frame the issue.

The same goes for these 'war on terror' voters. You aren't necessarily advocating keeping the country safe, but keeping the country safe in one way; that is, being willing to invade another country (as long as it's not Saudi) or kick ass or however you want to frame it. But what if diplomacy and trade can make us safer (as it did in the Cold War)? This is thrown out as weak. I don't understand why willingness to bomb Iran is a litmus test for anything.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

Shannon Lewis — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:31:16 -0000

Formerly a registered democrat, but I'm jumping ship:
I'm voting Ron Paul.
Seriously.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

Debbie — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:08:41 -0000

For those of you who are still not sure which canidate you would vote for...
Here is a quiz you can take.
http://www.wqad.com/Global /link.asp?L=259460
You answer several questions and how strongly you feel about each. It then lists the candidates and which issues they agree and disagree with you.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

Lewis — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:21:10 -0000

By the way, and I'm sure you all know this, "Love the sinner, hate sin" isn't found anywhere in the Bible, and, we can get into a whole theological exegesis about it, in many cases is actually anti-Biblical (probably not the right post to do it, necessarily).

But, "Love thy neighbor" is most assuredly in the Bible and that is *exactly* what Jesus tells us to do, right after we start by loving God. It is the love of God that *allows* us to love our neighbor.

In that sense, j rocka's comments are right on as are Darren's. Personally, I'm not for gay marriage or for single mothers. But, the reality is that both groups (or advocates for) people are loved by God, and therefore, as I model Christ, loved by me.

You can't legislate someone to act like Christ. That only comes when you have the love of Christ within you. Then you can go out and change the world by showing others that love. Sometimes, yes, that does mean disciplining and discipling them. Sometimes, it means wrapping your arms around another person. Everyone has different needs.

All that said, it's not the government's place to wrap their arms around anyone nor is it their job to tell me to wrap my arms around someone. Their job is to make sure that me, my family, and the country is safe. That's the Church. Or at least it should be (again, the failures of the Church - and there are so, so many - are a whole 'nother conversation that we can have which would not be topic relevant).

Small government, big ideas. That's what I'm looking for in the candidate for whom I'll cast my ballot. I love this convo.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

Dan — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:07:33 -0000

On abortion. First, abortion is a human rights problem, not a religious one. But as long as the most visible opponents to abortion are all religious leaders, people like me have a hard time arguing the point as human rights one. Stop having prayer vigils and get some atheists who can argue the legitimate point that killing a human baby is killing a human. Then maybe there can be some traction in the social fight. Until then, the pro-choice crowd can continue to argue (fairly) that because the pro-lifers are all Christians, they are just trying to impose Christianity on the rest of us.

Good point (other than the fact that I don't quite understand why atheists would have more authority on the matter than anyone else, or why a human rights issue can't have a religious component or vice-versa). In the end, I suspect science and not appeals to morality, religion, or courts will decide the issue. In the (relatively) near future medical technology will have given us a much clearer understanding (and much more vivid pictures) of fetal development. We'll wonder how we as a society ever tolerated abortion on demand. It will be as morally repugnant to us then as, say, slavery is to us now.

Or we'll come to understand how early fetus' look like human beings, how rapidly their brains develop, and how early in their develop they are capable of responding to sensory information (like pain), but we won't care. In which case, we'll have utterly lost our soul as a culture. That's a happy morning thought, huh?

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Obama On My Mind

Chris Green — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:56:15 -0000

I live in the South, therefore, we cannot play nice in politics. JK JK. I like Obama as a person, especially on his appearance on Leno...very charming man. But we don't live in a pre-2001 world anymore...our country needs a mean, butt-kicking leader...not a peace-at-all-costs, watching the polls for opinions, president.

So...I have to believe a Republican whose name is not Ron Paul is probably best for America. Socialized medicine, bad idea. You think the War on Terror is expensive? Just wait for "Hillary-Care."

Huckabee is great, but second-tier candidates cannot win. Is Thompson my choice...?