Ragamuffin Soul: Ragamuffin Soul » How Big Is Your Chenis?
Kelly Gubser
· 1 year ago
Size may not count so much as growth. If the church of 3 or the church of 5000 do not increase in size, there is likely a problem. So, it's not the size of your chenis, but is it growing?
Christi D.
· 1 year ago
You know- I will quote Bobby Gruenewald (one of our Lead Staff Members)- "There is no such thing as a Mega church. Only Micro churches with Mega vision". You're right, size doesn't matter.But there sure are a LOT of lost people out there:( sadly enough. Here is his original post: http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/01/16/there-ar...
John
· 1 year ago
@Kelly
hah! That was clever.
Jessica
· 1 year ago
Thank you for reminding me this. I am in Dominican Republic and I came here to be a missionary as a teacher. I love being here but I miss my big church. Yet, I needed to remember that it is not the size that counts because within one month of being here, God opened up the doors for a Bible Study that is growing. It is not huge but it is growing. I have to remember even in that one night a week Bible Study God is there.
Thanks for the reminder
DAVID DRAKE
· 1 year ago
Kelly: Re, Growing...this is true but another question is what are we using to grow it...because it seems to me a lot of our growth is like the kind of growth they promise in those spam emails or promise on late night infomercials.
Hank Osborne
· 1 year ago
Your line of thinking is an echo of some things I read in a book recently. I found this book recommended in the back of "The Shack".
The book is titled "So You Don’t Want to Go To Church Anymore" by Jake Colsen.
As members of the body of Christ we can always grow in our understanding of what God's measure of success is in the church.
Al
· 1 year ago
"Chenis" is the new phrase when talking church growth. This is going to make for some pretty sweet discussions.
Carlos your blog never ceases to amaze me. The creativity that takes place here, and not just from you, but those that take part here every day is incredible.
Lovin' it Bro'!
er
· 1 year ago
from a church of 20,000 (just saying, not bragging) authenticity of worship between 3 or 20,000 -- it all boils down to 2 really - you and God. We care about quantity and we care about quality. Growth inside and out.
haemin
· 1 year ago
this is awesome :)
Malachi
· 1 year ago
That's what she said.
John
· 1 year ago
I agree with everything said here thus far. In my line of work we have a saying. "A body's a body." However that should never become the motto of Gods true church. I fear too often it has though. God doesn't care how large our "church's" are, He cares about how large His Church is. I have to wonder what good all the numbers are when truth be told, 50% or maybe even more are there because it's what they do and not because of who they are. I pray God would break our hearts over this. Sorry for the rant guy's, but thanks for allowing me to have it.
matt
· 1 year ago
amen, amen and amen.
Josiah
· 1 year ago
good thoughts los. keep em comin
Jesse
· 1 year ago
AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN! amen!
something just occured to me as I misread your post. I read the idea "there are no mega churches" to mean that beyond a certain size, whatever you've got is not a church - like depending on your definition. (here I'm getting into mathematical graph theory). Let's define a church ... no, let's define a "church" as a "zurk". church = zurk. And define a "zurk" = a group of believers who know and support each other and worship God together. No zurk can exceed the size of the relationships in the zurk. If this is true, than you can't have a zurk larger than like 20 or 50. (My zurk would be like 4 or 5). church = zurk = <= 50ppl. So, perhaps, what we call a "church" or megachurch is really not a church, but a group of zurks/churches that really matters to the individual.
In a sense, if I only know 30 people at my mega church, my church is a size of 30 people. Although there are 5,000 other people there - they are essentially invisible to me. Sadly, I can easily be attending the megagroup, but not know anyone and therefore attending a church of size.
I wonder what the zurk sizes are like at a mega church?
Los
· 1 year ago
Jesse. GREAT thoughts
Ronni
· 1 year ago
It's seriously not the size. I'm so incredibly grateful for my "little" church of 85. My pastor KNOWS me. No... I mean he KNOWS me...stuff I wish nobody knew but he knows... and because we are so small, him and his wife can actually rub off on me. Their lives have affected my life in such an incredible way. I won't ever go back.
It's the who, not the how many.
BDub
· 1 year ago
Ronni- Cool. I'm really stoked that you are experiencing Jesus in a real, life transforming way. My kickback to that would be that there are hundred's of other people in our communities that need to be known and loved like that. So it seems we should passionately seek to extend the influence of our churches of 85 or ignite new churches of 85 to care for those outside of the sphere of that type of care. Trackin?
Nick
· 1 year ago
I am claiming 25% royalty rights to the word "chenis." Ryan and I were at Gordon Biersch one day for lunch talking about this very thing and he dropped chenis on me. We laughed, and thought about putting it on Urban Dictionary. Since I bought lunch that day, I get 25% ownership of this word. Cool? Cool.
Nick
· 1 year ago
Oh, and remember, its not the size that matters... its how you use it.
Pstr Mike
· 1 year ago
WoW that is an awesome post... I have suffered from this many times... it is a sad condition to suffer from... thank goodness I am recovering - maybe I should start a support group to help others identify it and get delivered from it...
Russ
· 1 year ago
As long as there are still hundreds and thousands of people to reach in my community I will still count the ones we are reaching.
Numbers are important.
Comparing numbers is not.
ryanguard
· 1 year ago
@nasolas I'll give you 12% and nothing more. I'll probably have to hook Kerry up too... he laughed more than you did.
Ruth Lang
· 1 year ago
that was funny I actually came here because of the word chenis i just had to find out what it was lol now I know, still laughing
My wife and I just left a church of about 800 to help a church plant of about 25. As George Costanza would exclaim, "There was shrinkage!!!"
Seriously tho, we could only make this move if we firmly believed that THE CHURCH matters more than a church.
Josh
· 1 year ago
So true...it'd be nice if we (my church) could still take attendance but stop checking it every week and let God work. That would be an interesting change :-)
kerry@colored with memories
· 1 year ago
good stuff. out of curiosity though...did you run the average on the numbers?
ryanguard
· 1 year ago
upsidedown- chenis shrinkages are to be expected... especially when it's cold outside.
kerry- there's nothing average about Carlos's chenis. he said it had something to do with being half black. must be a georgia thing?
john- you're creepy, but i think that's what you were aiming for.
Tara
· 1 year ago
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
PatrickJohn
· 1 year ago
You are all crazy.... but awesome. I love the freshness of new ideas and words. Very Awesome
D.Lake
· 1 year ago
I like Malachi's Office reference.
So size doesn't matter in church community ... but does it matter in your blog stats?
Can't it be said that every person in church is a heartbeat, a story to tell ... same as blog stats.
I don't see the difference.
I think each church has a role to play. Some have a larger influence, some smaller. We are all on the same team - what role do we (individual churches) play in the Body of Christ is the question to me with regard to size.
I do not attend North Point and have only been there once in my life. But, from afar, this is the very thing I absolutely LOVE about it. While Andy (among others) is an extremely gifted communicator, the emphasis at NP is on smallness, as in small groups and personal relationships.
People are hurting everywhere, outside the church and inside the church. While great sermons will attract 2k-20k+ people every weekend, it has been my experience that lasting change comes only through messy conversations and involvement with others...which rarely occur during a weekend church service.
Which is all to say that Jesse's church, I mean zurk, theory is probably dead-on. So with that, the size of my zurk is 8 although a 9th is starting to grow. Would that make it and 8.25?
Promise tangeman
· 1 year ago
ALL your chenises are important and special and can be used by God. Heh
Los
· 1 year ago
Stretch, but I see your point kinda. I just don't think that if one has 3 readers a day they are any less than 3000 a day. So no. It doesn't matter.
Los
· 1 year ago
That was to doug.
brad
· 1 year ago
why use unwholesome words to make a valid point or question. Why?
Bill Stanley
· 1 year ago
So does size matter or not? LOL
Truthfully that is so true. I get tired of these types of luncheons and actually have stopped going to them.
You ask an average minister how "HE" is doing and they instantly talk about their church. I have to interrupt them and say, "I wasn't talking about your church."
oh, I wasn't leaving you out ladies ("SHE") it just seems that the fellas, seem to deal with this more, I don't know? Ask my female minister friends and they actually answer the question.
DAVID DRAKE
· 1 year ago
Brad...what makes it unwholesome? Are you implying that a penis is by it's nature unwholesome? Because if you are I have to say that my wife would disagree with you.
The point is very apt...and if you have an issue with church/penis references you should totally go blog against God for what he said in Ezekiel 23:20 and ask him why he would use such unwholesome words to refer to Israel.
D
Chris Weiss
· 1 year ago
Size doesn't matter...it's what you do with it! But seriously, what is your church, or zurk, or whatever you want to call it, doing to impact the community around you? What is making a lasting impact? What is your chenis doing? that's what matters?
karen
· 1 year ago
Well since we're goin' there...Chenis size may not matter, but......
Bill Whitt
· 1 year ago
I actually like bigger churches. Here's why... I live in a rural area with a tiny church on every corner. They're horribly underfunded and understaffed (usually sharing part-time preachers), and the pastors are barely qualified to do their jobs. If all these churches got together, they could afford to do great things and have a great communicator as their senior pastor! But as it is, they live in the land of mediocrity (if even rising to that level).
Do we NEED a church on every corner with three people attending each? The answer is, no, we don't! But these churches are so tied to their history (often driven by a single family), that they're not willing to change. So they're just waiting to die off. How sad!
Chris Weiss
· 1 year ago
my chenis also gets really big around Christmas and Easter...go figure.
Mike
· 1 year ago
Comparison of size, whether we are talking about how big a guy is or how big a church is, is ego-driven. Thanks for pointing that out.
Mike
· 1 year ago
Comparison of size, whether we are talking about how big a guy is or how big a church is, is ego-driven. Thanks for pointing that out.
Paul Kuzma
· 1 year ago
We all have our own take on this, don't we? It's a beautiful thing.
@brad How is "chenis" an "unwholesome" word? How is "penis" even an "unwholesome" word? Anyway....
Boil it all down, I think Los has got it as tight as it can humanly be. If we all understand that we'll never have everything right in our own humanity.
Almost everyone here is right, it seems. A church of any number of people should have a heart for the lost and do what they can and are designed by God to do to reach the lost.
My experience is that not every church is designed exactly the same way in terms of how or how many lost people they reach. Whether they're reaching a few or dozens or 100s or 1000s isn't the issue. The heart is the issue.
Amazing to me that God designed the physical body that we're all unique. Why wouldn't His spiritual "Body" be the same?
All Comments
hah! That was clever.
Thanks for the reminder
The book is titled "So You Don’t Want to Go To Church Anymore" by Jake Colsen.
As members of the body of Christ we can always grow in our understanding of what God's measure of success is in the church.
Carlos your blog never ceases to amaze me. The creativity that takes place here, and not just from you, but those that take part here every day is incredible.
Lovin' it Bro'!
Sorry for the rant guy's, but thanks for allowing me to have it.
amen!
something just occured to me as I misread your post. I read the idea "there are no mega churches" to mean that beyond a certain size, whatever you've got is not a church - like depending on your definition. (here I'm getting into mathematical graph theory). Let's define a church ... no, let's define a "church" as a "zurk". church = zurk. And define a "zurk" = a group of believers who know and support each other and worship God together. No zurk can exceed the size of the relationships in the zurk. If this is true, than you can't have a zurk larger than like 20 or 50. (My zurk would be like 4 or 5). church = zurk = <= 50ppl. So, perhaps, what we call a "church" or megachurch is really not a church, but a group of zurks/churches that really matters to the individual.
In a sense, if I only know 30 people at my mega church, my church is a size of 30 people. Although there are 5,000 other people there - they are essentially invisible to me. Sadly, I can easily be attending the megagroup, but not know anyone and therefore attending a church of size.
I wonder what the zurk sizes are like at a mega church?
It's the who, not the how many.
Cool. I'm really stoked that you are experiencing Jesus in a real, life transforming way. My kickback to that would be that there are hundred's of other people in our communities that need to be known and loved like that. So it seems we should passionately seek to extend the influence of our churches of 85 or ignite new churches of 85 to care for those outside of the sphere of that type of care. Trackin?
Numbers are important.
Comparing numbers is not.
I actually came here because of the word chenis
i just had to find out what it was
lol now I know, still laughing
Seriously tho, we could only make this move if we firmly believed that THE CHURCH matters more than a church.
kerry- there's nothing average about Carlos's chenis. he said it had something to do with being half black. must be a georgia thing?
john- you're creepy, but i think that's what you were aiming for.
So size doesn't matter in church community ... but does it matter in your blog stats?
Can't it be said that every person in church is a heartbeat, a story to tell ... same as blog stats.
I don't see the difference.
I think each church has a role to play. Some have a larger influence, some smaller. We are all on the same team - what role do we (individual churches) play in the Body of Christ is the question to me with regard to size.
People are hurting everywhere, outside the church and inside the church. While great sermons will attract 2k-20k+ people every weekend, it has been my experience that lasting change comes only through messy conversations and involvement with others...which rarely occur during a weekend church service.
Which is all to say that Jesse's church, I mean zurk, theory is probably dead-on. So with that, the size of my zurk is 8 although a 9th is starting to grow. Would that make it and 8.25?
I just don't think that if one has 3 readers a day they are any less than 3000 a day.
So no. It doesn't matter.
Truthfully that is so true. I get tired of these types of luncheons and actually have stopped going to them.
You ask an average minister how "HE" is doing and they instantly talk about their church. I have to interrupt them and say, "I wasn't talking about your church."
oh, I wasn't leaving you out ladies ("SHE") it just seems that the fellas, seem to deal with this more, I don't know? Ask my female minister friends and they actually answer the question.
The point is very apt...and if you have an issue with church/penis references you should totally go blog against God for what he said in Ezekiel 23:20 and ask him why he would use such unwholesome words to refer to Israel.
D
But seriously, what is your church, or zurk, or whatever you want to call it, doing to impact the community around you? What is making a lasting impact? What is your chenis doing? that's what matters?
Do we NEED a church on every corner with three people attending each? The answer is, no, we don't! But these churches are so tied to their history (often driven by a single family), that they're not willing to change. So they're just waiting to die off. How sad!
@brad How is "chenis" an "unwholesome" word? How is "penis" even an "unwholesome" word? Anyway....
Boil it all down, I think Los has got it as tight as it can humanly be. If we all understand that we'll never have everything right in our own humanity.
Almost everyone here is right, it seems. A church of any number of people should have a heart for the lost and do what they can and are designed by God to do to reach the lost.
My experience is that not every church is designed exactly the same way in terms of how or how many lost people they reach. Whether they're reaching a few or dozens or 100s or 1000s isn't the issue. The heart is the issue.
Amazing to me that God designed the physical body that we're all unique. Why wouldn't His spiritual "Body" be the same?
Just my thoughts....