Ragamuffin Soul - Latest Comments in Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

scootermc — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:31:10 -0000

ouch. . .

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

scottmills — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:14:54 -0000

CONVICTED.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

scottiemills — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:02:59 -0000

CONVICTED.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

davej — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:51:29 -0000

yeah, that whole "go and make disciples...teaching them everything i have commanded" part sometimes gets lost in the "go and get people to pray the prayer and then move on to someone else" translation...helping people move onward and upward is the hard part and definitely worth talking/thinking about...

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Cami — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:32:01 -0000

Thanks for this-- "these" people have been CRUSHING my heart lately. You put into words what I want for so many (including myself) to grasp with their whole hearts.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Zack Arias — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:06:12 -0000

Man Los, this is amazing. I heart you. Yeah, I just typed that. I'll get over it. Will you? :)

Cheers,
Zack

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Rachel — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:31:19 -0000

It's been a little while since you posted this, Los...but it made me think about some significant issues, for sure. Coming from the angle of someone who has been in the band but rarely leading, I have thought of all these things often. As far as what I think...well, this isn't the time or place to talk about it. I try to avoid ridiculously long comments, anyhow.

But I wanted to thank you for writing this and being honest, when it could be so easy to let topics like this get swept under the rug. Rock on, Los.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Joshua Seller — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:57:47 -0000

Los- love the perspective.
After finished reading it, I wondered what role the Holy Spirit plays in revealing "the things of God" to people who come in. we may prep, (administratively, spiritual, creatively, every way) and still see little to know fruit unless the Spirit of God chooses to reveal himself to people. I'm talking really reveal (not just get someone to buy into what we're selling).
wondered your thoughts on that-

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

dee dee — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 03:38:39 -0000

tears. i'm laying here knowing i have to be at north point to pound on my own chest in 3 hours, having the notorious saturday night struggles... and i read this. tears.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Joni — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:39:23 -0000

Thanks. When I was a worship team leader(we had about 6 that rotated each weekend)at my old church, we would literally try to communicate the "worship disclaimer" from time to time to anyone who might get freaked out by our expression. That way we could stay true to who we were and still let people feel a part of it even if they didn't want to stand, sing, clap, whatever. It was an amazing experience. Now I get to teach my 3 kids about worship. So that's fun.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Los — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:00:25 -0000

Well put Tim. Well put. And yes. I love that you call it for what it is. We need more commenters around here to do the same.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Ronni — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 00:40:58 -0000

Los, just spent a few days picking the brain of Casey Corum and read this to a few peeps there. We all sat there going... woah. Yeah. Really. We want to be "relevant"... but seriously, we need that personal intimacy with God to be shown in our lives. In the outward manifestation that mesmerizes them and they don't know why! Heck I want them to see it at Walmart or the grocery, not just on that stage. I want them to know that what we do up there is an overflow from the deep, satisfying, all consuming love that we have for a Savior that has rocked our world and changed the very fabric of who we are. Casey said today that the church went from worship being a way of life to segregated times of prayer and praise. We need to get the idea of it being a way of life and the way we are more so than anything else.

Just been a lot on mind heart lately and you posting this was so timely. Thanks dude.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Tim — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 00:29:52 -0000

Los - I think you have the hardest yet most incredible job/calling in the world, and no doubt you do it very well, so please understand my perspective is not to criticize or strain gnats. I love what you have to say, and I am challenged by your journey that you have shared in this medium. This IS a great discussion as evidenced by the many comments of the bride. Ain't she a beaut?!!

This particular discussion touched on a subject near and dear to me - corporate worship. What people define as worship is unique to the individual, and the expression thereof even moreso. For me personally - it looks like a posture bent toward Jesus at all times.

My worship experience in the corporate setting was manipulated by man's agenda for so long that I had no choice but to live it daily which is a positive effect of a negative situation. I finally left that setting and vowed to only attend a church that gives room for the ministry of the Holy Spirit without the constraint of the 12:00 deadline so we could all rush toward the cafeteria or watering hole.

For the record - I've only attended 3 churches (regularly) in my entire life (across 40 years). I'm 48. Right now I'm in a place wher I feel like "doing church" sucks, but "being" one is way cool.

I've been so wearied by sermon series that were developed by some guy when he was in seminary ten years earlier which has little relevance to what the congreagation needs today, that I'd rather stay home and watch HGTV or plug in a HILLSONG CD. So I readily identify with the guy that says "church sucks," yet I'm mystified by the crossing of the arms. See how messed up I am?

What i think is cool is that as messed up as we all are -He that began a good work in us will carry it on to completion - HE authored it - He'll perfect it. That's freedom to fail which inspires me to love freely. As one who has been forgiven much, I love much. I see you do too and that inspires me Los.

As we would take the platform each Sunday for our 20 minutes, my worship Pastor Barry would say, "Let's give 'em Heaven." Periodically, he'd say - "Let's melt some faces!" If you do enough of the former, the latter will happen. Keep giving them Heaven bro - and give 'em twenty minutes of face-melting Jesus and He'll take care of the rest.

Again - I love what you share here and I'm glad there's no prerequisite to agree totally. I love ya man.

Tim

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Los — Sat, 31 May 2008 23:26:37 -0000

Tim. Alas. After 13 years of trying to figure this out every Sunday, I think you are missing the point. You are so focused on definition that you are forgetting the call to cooperate worship. You know well that I know that taking the trash out is an act of worship in the same way as singing in the auditorium every Sunday. Going to bed with my wife every night is an act of worship.
But we are talking about the service. An hour on Sunday morning. I think you are letting us all know that worship is 24/7. We get that. Seriously. We do. But I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water and state that the 20 minutes I get on Sunday to lead people to a Risen Savior in song is not going to get attention. IT is going to get a lot of attention therefor I am going to do it to the best of my ability and THAT is worship. The rehearsal and playing on the morning.
And if we (the church) are going to give that much of a time slot to singing, you best teach them why.

Great discussion.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Tim — Sat, 31 May 2008 23:17:11 -0000

Los - this is where I think we still miss the mark - making a distinction between the two (worship service/lifestyle). As many of the comments have stated, the worship service (see participation) is an extension of who we are and what our lives are about. So write THAT letter soon. :)

Everlasting His Light will shine when all else fades - including the service and the sermon. The Cry of my heart is to bring Him Praise from the inside out (and upside down) whether sitting in a pew or traffic.

Tim

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

loswhit — Sat, 31 May 2008 22:26:01 -0000

Oh. And guys. Sometimes we read too far into things. Take the post for what it is. A letter from an attender to me about the service not asking for what my thesis is on worship as a lifestyle.
That is another letter.
;)
Los

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

loswhit — Sat, 31 May 2008 22:23:07 -0000

Joni. That was amazing!!!

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Joni — Sat, 31 May 2008 20:17:06 -0000

OK, the signature was mine not yours. A little confusing.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Joni — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:59:01 -0000

Dear Dude Who Just Came Back To Church After 10 Years Because Church Sucks,
I really appreciate you letting me know where you're at. When I am up front and leading the music portion of worship, I have spent a lot of time working through the music, the message of the music and of the service itself, consulting in prayer and reading the bible. So a lot of planning does go into it. The reason you see me so physically engaged is that I have spent years on a journey getting to know God and developing that relationiship. So what you see is my expression of love and gratitude as an artist to God. My passion hopefully will inspire others to come with me.
Your letter reminds me that we are all in different places on our spiritual journey so some of us in service are sold out and totally committed and have no problem getting physical. Others may not be comfortable in that outward an expression but may worship extravagantly in other areas of their lives(giving, volunteering time, caring for others, etc.). I don't know that I have a how-to for you but the best thing I can suggest is to come back next week, don't worry about throwing your arms around, clapping or beating your chest. Just come with an open mind and heart to hear maybe one thing that God is trying to say to you whether you hear it in the music or the speaker or a kind person you meet. One step at a time and maybe someday you'll feel an authentic pull to be more exuberant. Or maybe not. Worship isn't just getting into the music or the vibe, its a genuine expression of how we feel/what we know about God. So to 'get there', just get to know God. Please keep in touch as you journey on.

Thanks again and God bless your investigation,
A worship leader who used to lead but doesn't anymore

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Robert Smith — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:48:37 -0000

Los not only do worship leaders worry about this, but so do we as members and attendees. When we finally get our friends, neighbors and other unchurched people into the Church, is the Church going to be able to deliver? This is where our faith and trust in the Lord has to come into play. I have seen alot of "Worship Leaders" some have the passion of you or Lee McDermit, but also have seen some with sunglasses on and some that did not know who Jesus was, but they are on stage and that is all that counts. Also I believe that a Worship leader and the speaking Pastor need to compliment each other not going in different directions, but living the same vision.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

j a n — Sat, 31 May 2008 19:24:17 -0000

I see I'm coming in at the end of a great discussion. Lots of great insight here about how people get to a place where they actually can worship.

I've often thought we simply plan our services backwards. People come in to a worship service after a hard week at work, not enough money to pay the bills, an argument with their spouse that morning and a kid who threw up in the car. We start off first thing with high praise, and many times people are just not mentally ready. They're not "there" yet.

Maybe we should put the message first in the service. This is the stuff that reminds us why we're here - God loves us and really does have everything under control. Once you get refocused on that... you feel like standing and singing and maybe even pounding on your chest. :-)

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Nick Asolas — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:56:13 -0000

Good debate. I happen to think that it is easy for us to make 'worship time' in church a form of spiritual pornography... just a self-serving, dirty imitation of the real deal with all the same feelings.

But what does it look like to worship in spirit and in truth? (Jn 4:23) I dunno. I just know that for the first time in 10 years, I have managed lately to turn off the "worship debate" in my brain and listen to Jesus during the music in church. Its good.

I just realized I forwarded this post to my worship leader at church, I hope he doesn't think I am accusing him of this stuff... crap, how can I un-send an email?

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

kim — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:17:29 -0000

(oh, I forgot to say....) maybe. :)

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

kim — Sat, 31 May 2008 17:16:00 -0000

I've been thinking about this post for over 24 hours. It's very very provocative (in a good way). I've had about 6 different strands of response, most of which have already been mentioned. So here are the remaining ones I've been tossing around in my head:

- why should it be the goal of any worship attender to 'feel' the same as it looks like some one else is feeling?

- is physical posture a true measure of commitment to following Christ? I have this internal debate all the time. To some degree, it IS... just like body language measures all kinds of other things. And there's the cheering-crowd-at-the-football-game factor; if we can go nuts over a touchdown, shouldn't we be able to muster physical enthusiasm over the gospel? (I say this as someone who doesn't actually go crazy at football games)

- (this is the one that really gets me, because I need to figure it out) HOW do we show people 'how to get there' (with the assumption that there is a valid 'there' for which to aim)? How? How in 15-20-30 minutes a week? If people come expecting that the worship gathering is the only place to experience and express true passion for God, how can we accomplish the teaching, the modeling, and all the important angles of worship in the time allotted?

In the end, I truly believe that our worship gatherings are to celebrate what we've been experiencing all week... the presence of a sovereign God in all our circumstances. And those gatherings can be punctuated with praise, or confession, or mourning, or joy. But the expression of worship comes out of our every day...and when you gather 100, 400, 1500, or 6000 of those 'every day initiated' worshipers together, the experience is like nothing else. How someone gets that as a newcomer.... it has to be experienced over time, and it has to be accompanied by living life alongside someone who gets it. As someone said above, that's how worship leaves the auditorium.

Re: Ragamuffin Soul » Dear Worship Dude

Josh Bollen — Sat, 31 May 2008 14:41:11 -0000

Hey Carlos,
I've been reading your blog since the first year I met you at Re:create and I'm just now beginning to comment :) sorry!

But this post was great! I think as worship leaders, one of the hardest things to remember is that we have to TEACH worship. I work with high school students, and i think it is sometimes even more important for me to remember this because I'm helping to set the foundation for their mindset at perspective on what worship is, and what a great "worship experience" can be.

Thanks for your thoughts and bringing this to attention!